One-off class reset request in light of Ascendancy expansion (@GGG)

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

STD is my playground, i have a 100 and 96, and no league or race character, whereas you keep your profile hidden...

It's hidden only because people whine about the obvious; this account doesn't have a single character. I'm only using this on forums over my Steam-bound account due to QoL circumstances.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Having a sensible and non detrimental option that pleases the majority of a dying, ignored and unappreciated player base is definitely not a 'joke'. If you are so opposed to it simply choose not to change your character. And you in the smallest of the small minority who complain about an absolute necessary and FREE respec... give me a break.

It's not "necessary". Go level a character that isn't a Duelist or Marauder; problem solved. And besides, that's what GGG wants you to do in the first place.

Just admit that you want things free, without putting in the effort to level a new character. Would having such a respec be beneficial for me? Sure, I have one Ranger that's over 80, and every single other character I got above 80's is a Scion. Hell, if this respec came to be, I could just turn my Scions into one of each different class and have free lvl 80+ skill trees of every different character to work with instantly. I could probably gear up at the spot enough to deal with normal / cruel labyrinths instantly, and depending on build, merc as well.

After this I truly wouldn't have to level a new character ever again, since I could just collect regrets / sell something to buy enough of them to forever respec and try out different ascendancy trees. Access to all content for free, without effort, during the first days ascendancy!

...

And you see no problem with this? -_-

You really don't seem to get it, especially for a supposedly perm league player, your view resembles temp player mentality. I'm not going to waste my time on you after this post, tbh i feel like you're trolling.

A big reason why most perm league players stick with perm is to enjoy and keep playing their chars and builds without being ruined and starting char over and over. Thats what temp leagues are for.

The subclass problem doesn't effect me too much because i have 2 really high lvl chars, but it hurts the casual 80 player who has limited time and resources when they realize their build could be so much better on a different character. Free respec is only right deserved and necessary for all the tree changes GGG had done. Try sympathize and put yourself in others shoes rather than have such narrow views.

I grind to 100 and 96, built a pretty decent wealth while only playing STD and you say i want things free and dont want to put in effort... lol now thats a real joke.

Carry on complaining about having more choice for the majority on your anon id.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

The subclass problem doesn't effect me too much because i have 2 really high lvl chars, but it hurts the casual 80 player who has limited time and resources when they realize their build could be so much better on a different character. Free respec is only right deserved and necessary for all the tree changes GGG had done. Try sympathize and put yourself in others shoes rather than have such narrow views.

...No. I can't and I won't. I haven't got shit free in my gaming career, and I'm still here, playing video games. And PoE, even though I always rage and flame after I die, because I don't play a cookie cutter. There is no part in me that can relate with someone who thinks "oh gee, I wish I could change my character selection but keep my levels".

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Carry on complaining about having more choice for the majority on your anon id.

You make it look like I care about the majority of PoE players. Newsflash, I don't. It's not my job to care about the majority. Not the streamers, not the noobs. That's up to GGG, I only speak out my personal opinions on things. If I ever imply that my suggestions are good for the majority of the player base, that's only because it serves my personal cause.

And while you call me anon, aren't you just the same? Just another name on this forum without any weight to put into his words? Are you a streamer? Did you make a famous build? Do random people recognize you, saying "oh yeah it's that guy"? The only difference between us seems to be that I realize being "just another face" while you think higher of yourself. You got a level 100 character, congratulations. Wait till I reach that point and then we can be in the "nameless people who own a lvl 100" - club together.

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666lol666 wrote:

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

One-off class reset request in light of Ascendancy expansion (@GGG)

You really don't get it. ^^ The point is that they want you to level a bunch of new chars! That is no side effect that is the main reason for the new expansion. ;)

Oh Gee, you must have some real inside info, I bet this account is an alt of Chris Wilson who is here to tell me, PrimordialDarkness, that this expansion is apparently not so that GGG can balance the game and attract players (who are going to bring their cash with them) but it is made solely so that I, PrimordialDarkness, can experience the joy of deleting 10 lvl 80+ characters and leveling them from the start again, nullifying around half a year's worth of gameplay! Now that I know that, I definitely will appreciate this unique opportunity that GGG has given me to play... ANOTHER GAME AND QUIT POE FOREVER!!! ^_^

Too bad all of that effort to make this expansion for me to experience levelling all over again will go straight to nowhere :( Because levelling repeatedly in this game is such a unique experience, every time you start over is so different it puts games like The Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age:Origins to shame I'm told...

In all seriousness though, at the end of the day, it won't matter if GGG decides to give this free class respec, or if they will decide to make off-class Ascendancies unlockable by pathing into other starting points. It's not like people won't play. People will play, and the cash will come in and GGG will think that all is well in the world of PoE again. Heck, I will probably play as well, but every time this happens it makes me play the game less and less. And I know for a fact that I'm not the only one, one look at my friends list (which is mostly populated by perm players) makes it obvious.There is just very little reason to keep inconveniencing and alienating a portion of the playerbase like this (standard league players, who get shafted 2-3 times a year). The same way there was no reason NOT to make a recipe for Reduced Mana gems when they were rendered useless and worthless by Rory's magnificent balancing ideas. Knowing GGG, nothing will be done to help standard players this time around either.

Still, it doesn't hurt to try. I guess it's kinda similar to people praying to all their imaginary deities. Nothing will ever come out of it. Well, the difference is that GGG are actually real human beings, so who knows. Maybe someday, after some big update causes like 70% of the SC population to quit when it could have been easily prevented, GGG might wake up and realise that they had no reason to keep fucking them over again and again, when they could have easily accomodated them at little cost to temp players. This happens often in games that rely on their community like PoE does after they get big - parts of the community get shafted repeatedly and eventually just quit, which causes more and more people to quit, bringing the game slowly down. Or who knows, maybe there is one reasonable person in those offices who carries a little common sense, and he will notice these posts and these patterns every time a big update comes and screws over SC players yet again, and he will try and do something about it.

And no, I'm not saying this will happen because of Ascendancy. But if this pattern keeps repeating itself, you can't expect people to just stick to the game to get repeatedly screwed by unintelligent and indifferent balancers who will refuse to even acknowledge the existence of problems caused by their new and radical ideas.

I've leveled my Scion to Level 100 just a few days ago, because I wanted to respec to SRS. Now with the annoucement of Ascendency coming, if Scion sucks for SRS, I probably won't bother making another character.

With the passive skill tree, you only lose maybe 5% hp or 4% cast speed by using the "wrong" class, but with Ascendency it's going to be alot worst/force me to play another build and I really don't want that.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

A big reason why most perm league players stick with perm is to enjoy and keep playing their chars and builds without being ruined and starting char over and over. Thats what temp leagues are for.

Your join date is a little over a year ago. Are the builds you made back then the same? You use the same gear and same skills and supports? Because in the 2+ years I've been playing I've seen almost every build buffed/nerfed/changed. I don't think the reason people play standard for the permanence of builds. I think they play for the permanence of their gear. And their built up wealth. Builds are made and ruined every patch. There is no build that has not changed in some way.

I say this because I don't think anybody has ever been given a reason to think that their current build would be permanent.

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mark1030 wrote:

I say this because I don't think anybody has ever been given a reason to think that their current build would be permanent.

What we HAVE been given reason to believe though is that, in this game, we could potentially access any part of the skilltree from any starting point, with the cost being a varying amount of points. This is unarguable, and is not just my mistaken belief either. I quote GGG from parts of the main website (pathofexile.com):

From the "Overview" found under "Game":

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Passive Skill Tree

All of Path of Exile's character classes share its vast passive skill tree. Starting at one of seven distinct locations dictated by their chosen class, players can focus on the core specialities of their class or travel across the tree to build complex combinations of skills from various disciplines.

From the "Passive Tree" found under "Game":

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This is Path of Exile's passive skill tree. It is a vast web of 1325 skills that provide passive bonuses to your character. Each time you level up or complete certain quests, you can allocate a skill and explore deeper into the tree. All character classes share the same tree, but start at different locations that are aligned with their primary specialties. You're able to either focus on improving your core abilities or travel across the tree to allocate exotic skills that your class normally wouldn't have access to.

Both of these texts are written by GGG and explicitly state that, up until now, you could access ANY part of the skilltree with ANY class. When Ascendancy hits, both of those texts become false. Which means the game is taking a different direction compared to what it has since its inception. Yes, some players prefer class identity. Some do not. I have already stated elsewhere that class identity is a useless concept that serves no balancing or gameplay purpose. It is only useful for roleplaying, which in turn is only worth anything to children.

And you're wondering why people are upset that the game is shifting direction irrevocably from what it has advertised since its creation? The moment subclasses hit the game, PoE is not PoE anymore. It is something else.

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Char1983 wrote:

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Demonoz wrote:

OR..................

Pull the gear off your already finished build that is on a sub-par class now, Turn it into something else, And lvl up another Character of the Class of the Ascendancy you want for that build.

Use Flame Totem to lvl it... It will take 2 days tops to get the gear back on it WITH the OP Ascendancy you want the gear and build on so it should be easy to finish it back up to make it even better than before.

But that would be too painful because he only has Scions (or Shadows, not quite sure?) and he also already knows that the Scion ascendancy class will suck.

Also, opinions other than the TOs are not welcome here and character consistency is not an argument for some reason. Neither is the fact that this exclusively benefits players that have been playing this game for a longer time already.

OH... OK... Well that makes sense... My bad! :P

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

What we HAVE been given reason to believe though is that, in this game, we could potentially access any part of the skilltree from any starting point, with the cost being a varying amount of points.

Have you also been told that the result potentially sucks more than not being able to skill a certain Ascendancy class? You could make suboptimal builds before, you can still make suboptimal builds. Not much changed there. We do not even know how suboptimal they will be yet, because we don't know what half of the Ascendancy classes will look like. Neither do we know what the passive tree will look like.

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

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GGG wrote:

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Both of these texts are written by GGG and explicitly state that, up until now, you could access ANY part of the skilltree with ANY class. When Ascendancy hits, both of those texts become false.

No. Most likely, they will still be true, unless they break up the skill tree with Ascendancy, which I doubt. The Ascendancy classes are not part of the passive tree, they need other points (not passive skill points, but Ascendancy points). The large web of the skill tree is still accessible to everyone.

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

And you're wondering why people are upset that the game is shifting direction irrevocably from what it has advertised since its creation? The moment subclasses hit the game, PoE is not PoE anymore. It is something else.

PoE 2.2 will not be PoE 2.0, that is just logical. Just as PoE 2.0 is not the same as PoE 1.3. It will still be PoE, though. And yeah, well, it seems like there are a few people upset, but there is also a large fraction of people who really look forward to Ascendancy classes (me included).

Giving a free class respec breaks immersion even more than a passive tree respec already does, benefits exclusively people who have been playing this game for a long time already and are not willing or not able to be creative and adapt, and IMHO attracts / fosters a mindset that is not good for PoE.

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Char1983 wrote:

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

What we HAVE been given reason to believe though is that, in this game, we could potentially access any part of the skilltree from any starting point, with the cost being a varying amount of points.

Have you also been told that the result potentially sucks more than not being able to skill a certain Ascendancy class? You could make suboptimal builds before, you can still make suboptimal builds. Not much changed there. We do not even know how suboptimal they will be yet, because we don't know what half of the Ascendancy classes will look like. Neither do we know what the passive tree will look like.

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

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GGG wrote:

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Both of these texts are written by GGG and explicitly state that, up until now, you could access ANY part of the skilltree with ANY class. When Ascendancy hits, both of those texts become false.

No. Most likely, they will still be true, unless they break up the skill tree with Ascendancy, which I doubt. The Ascendancy classes are not part of the passive tree, they need other points (not passive skill points, but Ascendancy points). The large web of the skill tree is still accessible to everyone.

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PrimordialDarkness wrote:

And you're wondering why people are upset that the game is shifting direction irrevocably from what it has advertised since its creation? The moment subclasses hit the game, PoE is not PoE anymore. It is something else.

PoE 2.2 will not be PoE 2.0, that is just logical. Just as PoE 2.0 is not the same as PoE 1.3. It will still be PoE, though. And yeah, well, it seems like there are a few people upset, but there is also a large fraction of people who really look forward to Ascendancy classes (me included).

Giving a free class respec breaks immersion even more than a passive tree respec already does, benefits exclusively people who have been playing this game for a long time already and are not willing or not able to be creative and adapt, and IMHO attracts / fosters a mindset that is not good for PoE.

"Ascendancy classes are not part of the passive skill tree and therefore do not count" has got to be one of the worst arguments I've seen in a while. You didn't even TRY to justify it either. Here is a list of reasons why they ARE part of the passive tree:

1) They are accessed by pressing the Passive Tree Key
2) They are PASSIVE bonuses
3) They are directly ATTACHED to the passive Tree.

So if they're not part of the tree, what are they? They are more part of the tree than Jewels are for example.

So now that we have established that Ascendancy classes ARE part of the passive tree, my previous point stands: There are inaccessible parts of the passive tree depending on where you started, and thus both texts are now false.

And by the way, THIS is how you argue a point. Take notes, child. You might need them when you grow up. Present your argument and JUSTIFY it.

None of your other stuff is justified either, so I'll just ignore it until you post some justification.