Terrorist attack in Paris
" That's a false flag, planted in the public mind set by misguided and misled media. The simplest and most common refutation would be all the heinous attacks ISIS commits against the people and nations that are in the Middle East. Are Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan supposed to stay out of the Middle East too? Furthermore, the draw down of troops from Iraq (Western world withdrawing much of its forces in the Middle East) was one of the key factors that let ISIS come to power in the first place. What do all the following maps have in common with ISIS? Spoilered (large maps) so people won't unwittingly get bogged down by loading images.
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 What they have in common, is that as they gained power, each of these groups took over as much territory as they could. ISIS doesn't currently have the troops, military arms or logistics to take over vast swaths of Europe. Instead, they try to use fear (and the frail reasoning of frightened and frustrated citizenry) to swing public sentiment and thus leadership into positions that allow them to recruit more followers, propagandize their cause and infiltrate a society so they can rinse and repeat the cycle. If ISIS had its way, they would kill and conquer until they controlled everything. After that (and more likely before that) they would begin turning on each other and a new cycle of war would begin so long as there was a significant differential of power. This is why I stated that a solution needs experts who have studied and been involved with diplomacy - there are far too many armchair foreign policy wonks in leadership positions that "know" what the answer is; consequently, they never bother trying to find out what the problem is. I am not questioning your expertise on the matter, and I am most certainly not going to discuss what my background is on foreign policy. Suffice it to say, that this is not something that I just started casually following in 19_ _. PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910 Last edited by DalaiLama on Nov 16, 2015, 6:03:31 AM
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False flag? Who systematically destabilised and fucked up the Middle East until we arrived in the present situation? While we're at it, who works constantly to prevent European unity and, god forbid, good relations with Russia?
Another question - what's USA's military budget? How do you even attempt to justify 600+ billion dollars per year if your military doesn't actively DO something? They had a nice and tidy bipolar model with the USSR before, which served both sides equally well in terms of ideology and propaganda. After the fall of the Eastern block, they could no longer point the finger at the big bad Russian bear and started concocting ridiculously justified wars because that enormous military machine has got to keep running. It's too much of a factor in the economy right now and the whole system will topple if it stops. Speaking of which, how the fuck does ISIS win so many victories and get such a foothold without the US's tacit agreement? I mean, 25 years ago they dealt with the Iraqi army, which numbered in the millions, and made it look like child's play. Now they can't deal with 30,000 terrorists in Toyota trucks? However, isn't it just groovy to pull out of Iraq and say "here, look what happens when we go away"? So, yes, the Middle East is so profoundly fucked up at the moment that simply pulling out would be akin to lighting up an anthill and letting it burn. But let's not pretend the US are anything other than a declining imperialist country which shores up its eroding economic hegenomy with their bloated military, manipulative spy agency and subversive diplomatic policy. History repeats itself and now it's repeating again. After all, the divide and conquer tactic is not exactly new. /political rant off, I'll try to not return to this thread The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again. Last edited by Bars on Nov 16, 2015, 6:26:42 AM
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" The key factor was actually illegal invasion of west in Iraq and bombing of Libya (and supporting rebels there also). After that supporting rebels in syria that turned out later to form ISIS and similar. ISIS would not exist if west did not destroyed few countries in that region. Last edited by Ragnar119 on Nov 16, 2015, 6:35:51 AM
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" I am French who knew some victims and lots of thx for ur manners man ,[Removed by Support], all making their proper bullshit to explain they view on france and europe geopolitic based on absolute nothing except the void in their sad life. I just wanna see how u guys will react ans see what u might write in forums when the tragedy will come to u to try to look like as an pseudo politic expert ... No. Not three days after the fact. That's crass and in extremely poor taste. Go to Paris and start talking that shit in the town square, see how well that goes over. They can't, they are stucked and too busy behind their Laptop spreading bullshits about countries they ignore in forums to show themselves as pseudo experts. They want the mini hype from the bullshit they will post nothing else, But empathy and respect for victims are just ignored, how would they get hype with such clues ? I am still asking at the moment why admins still didn't closed this thread yet, a lot of lack of respect and poor taste people over there, thinking their hilarious geopolitic science matters somewhere. Really disappointed by a lot there, [Removed by Support] then i would just see if ur geopolitic and ur hate will belong the day u will see over 100 dead bloody bodies in the ground, but yeah i guess we deserved it like u guys meant ;) nice guys, very nice. U can report my post, i don't even care anymore about the forum after that anyway, except few mannered people here the rest is just a bunch of worthless trolls dreaming about hype by using any world new they find, not surprising there was a reedit thread few times ago discussing why lots of people stay away from there, i didn't realised that was at this point of toxicity, but W/E now. [Removed by Support] just to see in their bullshit belong that strong after, i am just curious because these guys for the major part do nothing and know less than nothing, but still keeps telling us what to do, what to think, how to behave while they just do nothing at all 24.7, sad so sad to read. Thx to the very few respectful people over there, nothing except contempt for the rest. Pas ici pour rendre service ;). Un jeu avec autant de qualités que de défauts, malheureusement ignorés et soutenus par une marée de supporters nolifes sans aucune objectivité. Last edited by Jared_GGG on Nov 18, 2015, 5:27:01 PM
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" You'll need to go much further back in history to see a stable Middle East. The other suppositions are an interesting perspective that I've yet to see anywhere else. " About 520 Billionish - a little more than the 480 Billion dollars spent at Walmart. " They don't need to do anything (in terms of violent action), as the saying goes "They also serve who stand and wait." The bulk of the spending is consistently in two areas - personnel, and replacing/updating equipment. There really isn't much of a budget for "action", which is why Congress always has to authorize (and likely create a larger national debt) anything more involved than a brief defensive skirmish. " This much is true. " This much is false. That 520 billion would generate over 3.5 trillion in the GDP if it weren't being taken out of the private sector. " It starts with an extremely oppressed, tortured and angry Syrian populace. Assad's picture is everywhere you look, and I don't recall seeing a single smiling face in Homs, Bosra, Damascus, or Palmyra. Even what should have been a festive wedding party had a bride and groom that looked like someone had run over their dog. Assad's brutal regime was reinforced by literally trillion of dollars in Russian and Chinese weapons. Eventually, the US involvement (large shipments of arms) in the effort to topple Assad will make its way out. As ISIS became organized and terrorized the locals into submission, the fleeing Iraqi troops left behind some very serious weaponry. The terrorists have had a few generations of organizing and making the best of scant military resources, so the weapons and their relentless and cruel ideology granted them a decisive advantage. " That was a planned large scale invasion with plenty of logistical support. It's like having a 20 linked weapon with level 50 gems at 40% quality and no mana costs. Most enemies would not allow that kind of force build up if they can help it. The capitulation of the Iraqi army then matches the capitulation of the the Iraqi forces against ISIS. " Spy agencies are obviously not full of customer service people trying to make the world happy. They gather intel, analyze it, obfuscate their own nation's secrets and spread disinformation as deemed necessary for national security. The other major countries that can afford to run such an operation do the very same things. It's just a matter of scale. For the larger players in the game, there is also a lot of information sharing between supposed enemies. Nation states don't like surprises. As for the "pretend the US are anything other than" statement, that is not any more true of the US than it is of most other nations, and especially untrue if you consider nations that are in a similar position of power and wealth. The US could have held onto Iraq as a conquest, and Mexico could be annexed and ruled as a territory if continued Imperialism was part of our goals. The US has not been expanding or trying to acquire more international territory for a long time, and their initial expansion was largely due to a rejection of isolationism and embracing the idea that if we wanted to be safe from attackers, we were going to have to set up some strategic points around the globe. As for the decline, the only significant decline (relative to the rest of the world) is in military preparedness. The US used to be well equipped to wage war in three different world theaters and still have reserves for a couple smaller actions without sacrificing national defense. An unwise shift in political thinking led to a slow disassembly of that capability, which emboldened both Russia and China. The military wasn't bloated so much as it was outdated in terms of equipment and logistics. " Politics are seldom enjoyable discussions, and war is terrible and a subject bound to stir up a lot of strong emotions. PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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Comparing fight against regular army with fight against terrorists. Does say that history repeats itself. Wants more contact with russia and less with US. Oh my lord. Have mercy.
The Sirus fight is a disgrace.
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politics_and_stuff_with_DalaiLama
" Without a doubt. The Middle East is the cradle of civilization, and civilization is closely tied with war. About the other suppositions: I watched a video of a lecture on international policy, in Washington, where a US diplomat or foreign relations expert flat out said it, and it's obviously in US's interest if they want to maintain their position as world hegemon (which they want) for as long as possible. Sorry I don't remember the exact name, I'm bad with names. If you haven't seen this interesting perspective anywhere else, you haven't looked far. The US are maintaining an insulating layer of countries between Russia and Germany where they pull the strings and incite pro-American and anti-Russian sentiments exactly with that purpose. The Ukrainian crisis was also a part of that purpose (not saying Russia is innocent here by any means, but the US also had an active role). " Standing and waiting works in the short term, but spending as much as the rest of the world combined for the military in the long run without having an easily identifiable threat (real or perceived one) to point the finger at? Not happening. The terrorists filled nicely the gap left after the fall of the USSR. " You are operating from the assumption that there is no corruption and everything is done in all fairness. If you believe the guys who get salaries in the area of hundreds of thousands, but award contracts in the billions, don't profit from said contracts, I don't know what to say. The entire US military budget is an enormously inflated balloon. One point half billion for a bomber? Over one hundred million for a fighter? Tens of thousands per bomb or rocket? I don't think so. " It starts with the US idly sitting by and not doing a thing. They have experienced some problems with guerilla warfare in difficult to access, mountainous and thickly forested terrain in Vietnam and Afghanistan, but in Syria? Flat as a mirror, not a single cloud above to impede sattelite surveillance and drones? The only way for ISIS to conquer such a vast territory is for the US to allow it. Uprooting a subversive terrorist network hiding among the local populace is difficult. Blasting a military group conquering territories in completely open grounds is laughably easy. They don't need to send a single soldier there, just park the friendly nearby carrier and blast them with drones and missiles. After all, they are putting the drones to good use in Pakistan and elsewhere, stopping ISIS would be just a walk in the park, or a flight in the desert in this instance. " There is no place for moral in politics. There is no good and bad, only interests. I don't actually suffer from the "US are bad, the rest are good" misconception. The US are just the world's current (if rapidly waning) hegemon and are because of that better at promoting and defending their interests than most. Which means they mostly fuck other people up. That's politics for you. Each global empire in history has been like that. As I said, history works in cycles. As a sidenote, I'm not getting emotional or resentful towards the US, just saying how I see things. As for you personally, from what I've seen in the forum, I have only deep respect for your consistently intelligent and insightful posts. Speaking of which, it's entirelly possible that my limited information has lead me to some wrong conclusions and some or most of your points are correct. Politics is a complicated subject and it's difficult to see the truth in the sea of confliciting information and opinions out there. The Wheel of Nerfs turns, and builds come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the build that gave it birth comes again. Last edited by Bars on Nov 16, 2015, 10:55:59 AM
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" You have my deepest sympathies for your losses. " That's assuming it already hasn't. A few relatives, a couple friends and just last week a cousin whose skull has so many fragments in it that the doctors say they will have to remove his face to get them back out. The fragments are causing infections and meningitis. Sometimes he doesn't know his own name, sometimes he thinks he is his own son. The doctors hope to get him stable enough for the operation soon. " Just as there are mechanics, dentists, programmers and other professions, there are people who actually choose diplomacy as a career and spend years studying the field. " I'm not sure what "stuff" being said is in poor taste, except for the idea that the Western world brings these sorts of terrorist attacks on themselves by their involvement in the Middle East. That sort of victim blaming is something the terrorists and their sympathizers have groomed many in the media and public to believe. " I am sorry to hear you say that, but I remember very clearly what my emotions were like right after 9/11 when terrorists killed thousands of people in America - so I don't take any offense at it. On the other hand, terrorists and their lone wolf influenced agents do still attack the US, on a regular basis, whether it is stabbings, beheadings, or shootings. The media does its best to deny any terrorist links though, just as the some of the media here are downplaying the terrorists responsibility for the attacks in Paris. " I hope you don't think I was remotely suggesting that France deserved this. What I have been trying to say in the thread is that nations need to come together and come up with a long term plan to prevent such tragedies from happening in the future. That doesn't mean immediate action - such as the airstrikes and investigations shouldn't go on, but rather the the priority for dealing with terrorists such as ISIS needs to be much higher for the voters and the leaders. PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910 Last edited by Jared_GGG on Nov 18, 2015, 5:28:21 PM
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I'm french and i'm thankful to see PoE community showed some support to what happened Friday 13 in Paris. sooo Thank you.
I'm also thankful to see the support others countries showed it may be not that relevant for those who never experienced terrorist actions in their countries but trust me it gave to all frenchs lot of strenght. What i'm going to say now is this is happening since years in many countries recently in lebanon and last summer in Turkey and the support has been really smaller or even inexistant than the one for France today and last year. If you want to fight against terrorism like peoples around world fighted it for France or USA by the past aswell we can't ignore all others countries. We also can't keep thinking this is a religion issue when this is not. Those guys are a crime organization aiming for power and business. Their actions are irrelevant and french peoples won't give them more than they took. We won't forgive. And we won't stop to fight them. They are abusing a religion, using it to their own ends, provocating politics issues in all countries and using terror to force peoples joining their ideas. This support that international community showed is a great thing but it has to be a great things for smaller countries that experienced that aswell. They are fighting the same enemy and get in return the same issues. I trust in a world where all those countries can act together against this group or any other group acting like that and i'm asking you to think about it two minutes. It can be France / USA / Lebanon or any others we are all humans and no one deserve what happened to those civilians in Paris. Think about the world you want to let to your kids and what you could do all days to make it better. This is a part of the job to fight them. Bombs or anything arn't the solution to kill an idea. Beeing and acting together is. Thanks for reading, France still here and what they expect is not going to happen anytime soon. We are not going to give them the fear and the terror they expect today. They just failed and lost credibility again. Helionix Hf :)
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"Not Afraid"
That's the message. Unfortunately RNG isn't hard only in PoE. As a french player who lost some familliar acquaintance, I hope that everybody will stay proud and strong, don't be phobic about go out in Paris. Thanks a lot for all international support. Tributes to victims of Paris. Maedhlyn ~ |
