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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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sidtherat wrote:
want 6L spam? pay for it.
you cant on mana in a lot of cases, that is the point, there are too many cases where you literally cant. Pay for it and stuff like this suggests people can make it work but dont want to spend the points, they dont have the points and the nodes you need to spend them on do not exist even if they could afford them which they cant. Its just an ignorant statement by someone who I dont think sees the problem.
because i see a problem - players greed and overinflated expectations bordering entitlement
ofc you can spam them on mana. you just dont want to do stuff that might be needed to pull it of: drop an aura (blasphemy!), stack mana on gear (oh noes, here go my uniques with all-offensive stats), pick cheaper supports (oh noes my dips!), use reduced mana (lol i know) etc.
these are all 'weak' choices? well.. maybe. but spamming 6L spells is a) not needed as most spells do quite fine in 5L b) is a luxury of big damage and should have a price tag to it.
GGG - by a lack of foresight - induced into players that they are entitled to 6L spam for free (or maybe taking 2 nodes.. and calling it a SERIOUS investment). that was a serious mistake. mistake that made players have no respect to their fuel-resource at all. noone claims that 'resistances are not really worth it', nobody says 'damage is not really worth it' etc yet there is a constant cry-river on reddit and here that one has to 'invest 5 points into mana' (lol) and it is too much and not worth it
some stupid notion makes people think that the mana cost drawback (that is clearly by design - mana multipliers on gems) is a nuisance and should go. it is yet another mechanic that separates bad builds from good builds.
what you guys want is to remove the 'obstacle to fun' - that is braindead gameplay when one needs to hold one mouse button and kill everything without breaking a sweat. for some it is fun.. maybe. but for me it is a definition of dumbing down beyond a point of no return
when was the last time someone said 'gas is not really worth it' when standing next to run-out car? your spells need gas. you've decided to go for the gas-guzzler. fork some cash. or push it :)
btw - i have a self found CI 5Link EK mana self-caster. her gear is garbage (580 es chest, 280 es shield, rainbowstrides, junk gloves, no % jewelry etc). i total ~9000 ES and it is one of the funniest chars ive played. ofc it is not 'viable' by your 1000ex-standards because you like the dips in 6digits and atziris dying from Riposte procs but for a Joe Average that you care that much it is perfectly fine (including doing clusterf.. of fights like Jungle Valey that even some 'viable' builds like to avoid)
Last edited by sidtherat#1310 on Oct 28, 2015, 3:28:19 PM
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Posted bysidtherat#1310on Oct 28, 2015, 3:22:51 PM
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sidtherat wrote:
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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sidtherat wrote:
want 6L spam? pay for it.
you cant on mana in a lot of cases, that is the point, there are too many cases where you literally cant. Pay for it and stuff like this suggests people can make it work but dont want to spend the points, they dont have the points and the nodes you need to spend them on do not exist even if they could afford them which they cant. Its just an ignorant statement by someone who I dont think sees the problem.
because i see a problem - players greed and overinflated expectations bordering entitlement
ofc you can spam them on mana. you just dont want to do stuff that might be needed to pull it of: drop an aura (blasphemy!), stack mana on gear (oh noes, here go my uniques with all-offensive stats), pick cheaper supports (oh noes my dips!), use reduced mana (lol i know) etc.
these are all 'weak' choices? well.. maybe. but spamming 6L spells is a) not needed as most spells do quite fine in 5L b) is a luxury of big damage and should have a price tag to it.
GGG - by a lack of foresight - induced into players that they are entitled to 6L spam for free (or maybe taking 2 nodes.. and calling it a SERIOUS investment). that was a serious mistake. mistake that made players have no respect to their fuel-resource at all. noone claims that 'resistances are not really worth it', nobody says 'damage is not really worth it' etc yet there is a constant cry-river on reddit and here that one has to 'invest 5 points into mana' (lol) and it is too much and not worth it
some stupid notion makes people think that the mana cost drawback (that is clearly by design - mana multipliers on gems) is a nuisance and should go. it is yet another mechanic that separates bad builds from good builds.
what you guys want is to remove the 'obstacle to fun' - that is braindead gameplay when one needs to hold one mouse button and kill everything without breaking a sweat. for some it is fun.. maybe. but for me it is a definition of dumbing down beyond a point of no return
when was the last time someone said 'gas is not really worth it' when standing next to run-out car? your spells need gas. you've decided to go for the gas-guzzler. fork some cash. or push it :)
btw - i have a self found CI 5Link EK mana self-caster. her gear is garbage (580 es chest, 280 es shield, rainbowstrides, junk gloves, no % jewelry etc). i total ~9000 ES and it is one of the funniest chars ive played. ofc it is not 'viable' by your 1000ex-standards because you like the dips in 6digits and atziris dying from Riposte procs but for a Joe Average that you care that much it is perfectly fine (including doing clusterf.. of fights like Jungle Valey that even some 'viable' builds like to avoid)
everything you have just said is nonsense, and i cant even be bothered to explain why tbh.
I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Posted bySnorkle_uk#0761on Oct 28, 2015, 3:57:05 PM
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I actually believe you should post what you have to say, you seem like a very high quality poster to me.
I think the most interesting point you raise about ES is that it take some effort to get it working, unlike AR or EV. I wonder if that's a good thing though. For me it is. For newbies, well I don't know, but GGG wants PoE to be a game that you become better at as you learn more. Once you discover how to play hybrid a lot of possibilites open up to you since you no longer need coil, armor, or eva. I think it's kind of neat.
All my builds /view-thread/1430399
T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265
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Posted byMatrixFactor#3574on Oct 28, 2015, 4:28:20 PM
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everything you have just said is nonsense, and i cant even be bothered to explain why tbh.
Masterful refutation...
You ignored my detailed post, and now are dedicated to ignoring sidtherat's. Call it boys, this guy's tapped out!
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MoLoK13 wrote:
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everything you have just said is nonsense, and i cant even be bothered to explain why tbh.
Masterful refutation...
You ignored my detailed post, and now are dedicated to ignoring sidtherat's. Call it boys, this guy's tapped out!
no I just dont have the energy to explain things to people who are so far off base, so far from understanding the point that there is just no hope. I took the time to respond to MatrixFactor because he actually knows what hes talking about and has relevant points, he has extremely high level gg characters and can see the entire game from a1 normal with a white glass shank to lvl82 maps with ridiculous gear, he has that perspective on things, hes not talking about stuff he has extremely limited experience of. Sid is a lost cause, I dont rly know you but I just dont have the energy to go through everything single thing you said and explain why I disagree, sry mate. This is a feedback thread for GGG, not snorkle explains the game to anyone who fancies showing up. I dont mean that to sound harsh mate, no disrespect intended I just dont think you really grasp what Im talking about or where Im coming from, Im one of the most experienced players on these forums and comments like this..
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sidtherat wrote:
because i see a problem - players greed and overinflated expectations bordering entitlement
and this
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MoLoK13 wrote:
In my opinion you've been spoiled by old EB/Discipline/Clarity interaction which made managing mana a mindless zero-issue for casters.
are just a big flashing sign saying "this guy has no clue who hes talking to or what this post is actually about". not worth my time.
I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Posted bySnorkle_uk#0761on Oct 28, 2015, 9:36:18 PM
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MoLoK13 wrote:
Interesting post, a few thoughts -
1. EB/MoM/ZO is perfectly fine. There is no problem here. The new EB I'd say is actually an improvement over the old, because you can reserve 100% of mana and still have a pool to cast from. This is a huge boost to casters (in particular those who use lightning skills, because Wrath is great) which I think is totally underrated by the community.
2. Sustaining on mana isn't easy, I agree, but it can be overcome.
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Mana pots? No, just no...
Well, why not? They were buffed in 2.0 and a totally viable option to sustain casting now. It requires slightly more mechanical skill from the player in remembering to use it, but that's hardly as game-breaking as you make it out to be.
Another way to look at it: Blood Magic lets you totally ignore mana, at the cost of getting zero auras. EB used to let you totally ignore mana as long as you ran a leveled Clarity. The downsides of the two are hardly comparable. Now, BM actually has a place in the game as a caster resource where it never did before, and casting off mana takes a bit more investment and thought.
I also play almost exclusively casters - mana sustain is a problem to be overcome, and it can be frustrating, but it's definitely not game-breaking.
Option 1: EB/MoM/ZO, gear for it with Blood Dance boots and use Enduring Cry. Problem solved.
Option 2: take Clarity and invest in mana regen nodes, get added mana on your gear (very important). Add a mana flask to your belt.
Option 3: Blood Magic.
Now, regarding leech, there I think you have a solid point that it sucks now. Mana and life leech should not operate off the same mechanics, and it particularly screws ele attack builds such as Wanders (casters are not nearly so affected). The problem is, if you add an "Option 4: mana leech is really good" it trivializes the 3 above and becomes all that's needed with a single affix on a single gear slot, which GGG probably doesn't want. So balancing these is not so simple as you'd make it out to be.
sustain on mana = on mana capacity and mana regen, not currently possible without ~12 nodes in mana capacity and regen, and the jewel for flat mana regen, with clarity.
mana pot = not sustaining on mana, it's a work around that removes your ability to use another flask.
bm = "mana sucks don't use it"
elreon jewelry = "mana sucks don't use it"
the point is, to get mana to actually work on it's own you need more investment than ".4% mana leech", which is one or two nodes, blood rage, warlord's mark, or a mod on a piece of gear.
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Posted bysvnhddbst#1266on Oct 29, 2015, 5:17:57 PM
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The main issue with Mana is the % reservation.
If most builds reserve ~80% of their mana this means that all efficiency of mana nodes is reduced by 80%.
for a melee with low costs it's easy to sustain that mana off the 20% remaining but for a caster it's impossible.
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Posted byKranyum#1598on Oct 29, 2015, 5:25:44 PM
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Remember when Witch and Templar got 40% mana regen for free? Those were the days.....
"ran out of high teir maps to leave on the ground - people kept taking the higher teirs" - Da Pagionator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T31clJn_oNQ
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CI arc user with 1k+ mana (300 unreserved), 190% mana regen on tree and 116% on gear, clarity with 20% increased effect: no big issues with regen but if I spam endlessly my skill, I'll run out of mana.
About defences, this is a good combo with an investment of 0 skill points
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Posted byDarkWap#6134on Oct 30, 2015, 8:48:06 AM
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Snorkle_uk wrote:
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MoLoK13 wrote:
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everything you have just said is nonsense, and i cant even be bothered to explain why tbh.
Masterful refutation...
You ignored my detailed post, and now are dedicated to ignoring sidtherat's. Call it boys, this guy's tapped out!
no I just dont have the energy to explain things to people who are so far off base, so far from understanding the point that there is just no hope. I took the time to respond to MatrixFactor because he actually knows what hes talking about and has relevant points, he has extremely high level gg characters and can see the entire game from a1 normal with a white glass shank to lvl82 maps with ridiculous gear, he has that perspective on things, hes not talking about stuff he has extremely limited experience of. Sid is a lost cause, I dont rly know you but I just dont have the energy to go through everything single thing you said and explain why I disagree, sry mate. This is a feedback thread for GGG, not snorkle explains the game to anyone who fancies showing up. I dont mean that to sound harsh mate, no disrespect intended I just dont think you really grasp what Im talking about or where Im coming from, Im one of the most experienced players on these forums and comments like this..
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sidtherat wrote:
because i see a problem - players greed and overinflated expectations bordering entitlement
and this
"
MoLoK13 wrote:
In my opinion you've been spoiled by old EB/Discipline/Clarity interaction which made managing mana a mindless zero-issue for casters.
are just a big flashing sign saying "this guy has no clue who hes talking to or what this post is actually about". not worth my time.
the more easily you can explain something, the better you know it.
explaining or arguing to an idiot will never convince the idiot, but it might convince an onlooker with an open mind.
"can't be arsed to explain" means you don't recognize either of these, or value your time more than both, which means you commented for attention, and not to contribute.
" 'wave your hands like you just don't care' wouldn't a better show of apathy have been to not even bother?" you are shouting how much you don't care, which demonstrates either you do care, or don't care but want attention for not caring.
both my comment and yours should be deleted for being non-constructive, all you said was "you are so wrong i can't even explain it" and all i said was "stop crying for attention and do something constructive" neither of which helps this thread or the readers of the thread.
Last edited by svnhddbst#1266 on Oct 30, 2015, 10:17:02 AM
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Posted bysvnhddbst#1266on Oct 30, 2015, 10:15:40 AM
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