Nerf Bino's

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Boem wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Oh boy! GGG announces poison getting buffed, Binos OP threads start popping up!

^This, we don't even know the full extent of the revised passive tree and how the mechanic behind poison will actually function, this thread is pointless.

Peace,

-Boem-

Bino's has a pretty high DoT stat on it as well that I totally forgot. thanks

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OlaSarcasm wrote:

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ment2008 wrote:

can you stop ask to destroy more POE item?

Shav destroyed from 30ex to 3ex, same about mjolner, windripper and many other items...
why just not ask to boots the common trash that we normally vendor into some useful items instead of nerf the few that we left to play with?

I'd rather have 1 thing nerfed than 200 buffed

oh ofc that's the easiest part.. lets just leave the players with 15 good unique items because it's easier to nerf everything and not boost up the unused/vendored uniques...

i only see negative effect on the game, nothing else but that...

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ment2008 wrote:

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OlaSarcasm wrote:

"

ment2008 wrote:

can you stop ask to destroy more POE item?

Shav destroyed from 30ex to 3ex, same about mjolner, windripper and many other items...
why just not ask to boots the common trash that we normally vendor into some useful items instead of nerf the few that we left to play with?

I'd rather have 1 thing nerfed than 200 buffed

oh ofc that's the easiest part.. lets just leave the players with 15 good unique items because it's easier to nerf everything and not boost up the unused/vendored uniques...

i only see negative effect on the game, nothing else but that...

so the only thing you care about is cash and economic balance, not actual game balance?

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OlaSarcasm wrote:

so the only thing you care about is cash and economic balance, not actual game balance?

Where did you saw any word the related to economy or cash?

I have shitton of exalted orbs and the last i do care is get more...
i want new builds to play with, and atm by nerfing Bino's you just make the possible builds to play even less.

And on the 3rd time, boosting unused/vendoring uniques, gonna bring new builds more fun for the new & old player...

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ment2008 wrote:

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OlaSarcasm wrote:

so the only thing you care about is cash and economic balance, not actual game balance?

Where did you saw any word the related to economy or cash?

I have shitton of exalted orbs and the last i do care is get more...
i want new builds to play with, and atm by nerfing Bino's you just make the possible builds to play even less.

And on the 3rd time, boosting unused/vendoring uniques, gonna bring new builds more fun for the new & old player...

how would nerfing it and making it more common hurt new players? if anything it'd bring more newbies to melee instead of incinerate, srs and generic crit when poison buffs are coming and bino's will be more relevant than ever. more but less powerful bino's will drop the price significantly and make them more popular.

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ment2008 wrote:

can you stop ask to destroy more POE item?

Shav destroyed from 30ex to 3ex, same about mjolner, windripper and many other items...
why just not ask to boots the common trash that we normally vendor into some useful items instead of nerf the few that we left to play with?

Uques you mentioned price drop don't come nerfs and lack of power but from drop rate buff.

At the moment Binos is more of a start into dagger builds and one of the first items to replace. You trade lifegain/poison (poison is more of a gimmick than anything else) for 50-100% more damage with other daggers. But atm your nerf requests lacks any comparison to alternatives and isn't a valid request for me.

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kamil1210 wrote:

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ment2008 wrote:

can you stop ask to destroy more POE item?

Shav destroyed from 30ex to 3ex, same about mjolner, windripper and many other items...
why just not ask to boots the common trash that we normally vendor into some useful items instead of nerf the few that we left to play with?

Uques you mentioned price drop don't come nerfs and lack of power but from drop rate buff.

^ Sad but true, k-milk is right about this.

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OlaSarcasm wrote:

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nait2k4 wrote:

So what kind of DPS are you pushing that the regen feels OP?

140k with Devoto's

What kind of investment are you putting in to achieve that level of DPS?

A mechanic that becomes OP with significant investment and optimised supporting gear isn't really OP, it is working as intended. This is the issue that I had with MatrixFactors incredily detailed post on CoCs interaction with Surgeons Flasks and life sustainability.

There NEEDS to be a point where gear investment and passive skill investment results in an opportunity to face roll the shit out of the game. Why? Because it is an end goal, its a point where you can sit back and look at a character and say, "That'll do pig, that'll do."

For a lot of the current FOTM builds that are mentioned as OP, this end point still requires a significant amount of leveling and gear investment. When we're talking about achieving faceroll, but the entry cost is a 6L, optimised supporting gear, and a modicum of player skill, we've left the OP territory and moved into "Working as Intended".

If a skill or mechanic gives you the ability to faceroll content with a huge variety of map-mods, without significant investment (for the most part 4/5 link skills) and supporting items like jewellery that don't need to have specific attributes - thats when a skill bears closer inspection.

Incinerate is one such skill - but thats not to do with incinerate so much as it is enabled by items like Elreon Jewellery. We shouldn't ever be in a point where a skill can be spammed for almost free by the simple addition of a couple of rings, and still produce enough DPS to comfortably roll content as a defensive build. Same with CoC, it isn't the skills fault, its that fact that it is enabled by other mechanics which reduce investment requirements.

I really think these kind of conversations don't highlight that problem with an individual skill, but all of the bits and pieces that have been introduced to the game over time and how they all interact with each other in ways that perhaps the GGG team didn't forsee clearly.

Wow. That turned into an incomprehensible rant. Which is probably mostly wrong.

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nait2k4 wrote:

Wow. That turned into an incomprehensible rant. Which is probably mostly wrong.

Not at all, that was pretty much on point and nice to read.

The underlying question is how GGG defines "working as intended", knowing that would give the community a lot more to work with and base decisions of.

I can comfortably say i agree pretty much with your definition. If the investment level is there and the build still requires "skill" to function in the top-tier maps even with that investment i would consider it balanced.(players do need to fear death in my opinion in the highest content possible, or at a minimum it should punish player error's harshly)

Efficiency, i also consider a major factor in deciding if a build is overpowered. For example we used to have full block tanks capable of face-tanking the highest content possible however in return for this power they sacrificed clear speed.(being melee and rather medium offense)
So i never considered those builds as overpowered, because the efficiency was under-powered sort of speak.

Peace,

-Boem-

I dont think people with loath banes and acuity gloves are looking at binos and thinking "oh, really want to get one of those now."

Binos is a really powerful weapon but you can double its damage with a rare, you can instant leech on crit off that double damage which makes the regen of binos pretty meaningless as a sacrifice. Its not an item you would see in a top end build atm and thats a good spot for a unique given its also actually used, its a good item. Thats my take on it.