I am lucky, therefore game is fine

Well indeed GGG does tell you "fuck you go trade" because thats the way they designed the game but why is that a problem? Some ppl might like it some ppl might not but the fact remains that this was their choice and its obvious because of all existing currencies that it wasnt a random choice that just happened. They really wanted ppl to trade with each other. Obviously not every game is for everyone.

Did they do a perfect trading system? No. Far from it actually. They didnt even bother creating a trading system in the first place but thats not the topic here.

Could PoE be viable without trading? No. Why? Because there are 100s different builds that require different items so unless it was rainning items left and right that wouldnt be possible. Also its quite obvious that this would lower the playtime of the game to 1/100th that it is now.

Does it lack the feeling of progress? Yes it does. Because after a while u eventually complete your build through trading or not and the only reason you are playing is for wealth in order to build a more expensive build. I suppose thats a weird decision they made and instead of adding end-game where u constantly improve your char they made the creation of an expensive build the actual end-game (i mean that the point of playing a max-block incinerate build for example is not to beat the game but to gather sources to make a mjolner build or something).

Ask yourself though whats the only reason PoE is still arround?
Gameplay? Probably worst gameplay in any arpg ever. You just use 3 auras and right click.
Graphics? Outdated at best
Storyline? Wait is there a story?lol

The only reason its arround its because of its "wow factor" when you actually get a good drop or the currency to build an OP build.

John im still failing to understand what you are asking here in actual PoE terms instead of philosophy. Can you give me a simple examples on what would you like to drop from what while it shouldnt drop from something else? Examples is the only way for ppl to understand each other and perhaps reach a conclusion. If i could understand what part of RNG you dislike so much then i could decide myself whether you are right or just a crybaby.

@RagnarokChu, that's exactly why it is important to have a good mix of content, which is collectively challenging for *most* builds, for every single risk/reward "tier".
what this ideally means, is in every part of the game from start, to finish, to end-game, to super-end-game - there will be content that kicks your ass into trying better, kicks Totem Guy's ass into trying better, and vice versa and repeat for next tier.
kicking ass, and encouraging to push further.

this of course is an Utopian vision and is next to impossible to achieve, especially in a game as astoundingly diverse as Path Of Exile.
such unparalleled diversity, that it's to me the defining feature about PoE more than any RNG black box or Economy "offar" bazaar will ever be.

but the key "keys" is offering here, is to actually try.
does Path Of Exile try? no. should it? hell yes. imo, it would propel it to "god game" status when GGG decide they should try.

P.S: builds that break the system? well building a character is a huge part of skill in the game. if you are skillful - that's also risk/reward.

"

Mitsaras wrote:

Ask yourself though whats the only reason PoE is still around?
Gameplay? Probably worst gameplay in any arpg ever. You just use 3 auras and right click.
Graphics? Outdated at best
Storyline? Wait is there a story?lol

at this point, I'm really not sure if you are trolling, genuinely don't give a shit about the game, are here to just throw around straw arguments, or all of the above.
seriously... what? (EDITED. got under my skin there. will not allow it to happen again)

Path Of Exile is fkn amazing if you actually bother with the story and NPCs.
you know what? it also has pretty good graphics, as if graphics ever actually mattered in a good ARPG or RPG.
and most importantly it has a fkn awesome set of skills if you play not "streamer build omg so op right click to win" but actually commit to trying out things that seem cool. crazy. unique... oh god so many gems with so many permutations... so many passives... mechanics... best part about the game.
took me 2+ years, but I'm just hopelessly addicted to the game.
to the stuff it does so brilliantly right.

and yes, I do indeed say "fuck trade".
but GGG should not get rid of trade, because some people (you, for example. Chunda. Apathy. Jake...) enjoy trade a lot as a game feature.
and that's exactly where it should be: a feature. not a center hub of everything which sucks in everyone - willing or not.
why should I be in the same bazaar with you, if you enjoy being there and I don't?

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Mitsaras wrote:

Ask yourself though whats the only reason PoE is still around?
Gameplay? Probably worst gameplay in any arpg ever. You just use 3 auras and right click.
Graphics? Outdated at best
Storyline? Wait is there a story?lol

at this point, I'm really not sure if you are trolling, genuinely don't give a shit about the game, are here to just throw around straw arguments, or all of the above.
seriously... what? (EDITED. got under my skin there. will not allow it to happen again)

Path Of Exile is fkn amazing if you actually bother with the story and NPCs.
you know what? it also has pretty good graphics, as if graphics ever actually mattered in a good ARPG or RPG.
and most importantly it has a fkn awesome set of skills if you play not "streamer build omg so op right click to win" but actually commit to trying out things that seem cool. crazy. unique... oh god so many gems with so many permutations... so many passives... mechanics... best part about the game.
took me 2+ years, but I'm just hopelessly addicted to the game.
to the stuff it does so brilliantly right.

and yes, I do indeed say "fuck trade".
but GGG should not get rid of trade, because some people (you, for example. Chunda. Apathy. Jake...) enjoy trade a lot as a game feature.
and that's exactly where it should be: a feature. not a center hub of everything which sucks in everyone - willing or not.
why should I be in the same bazaar with you, if you enjoy being there and I don't?

Because that's the game you're playing.

"

Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. It is designed around a strong online item ECONOMY, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races.

"

Economy:
An economy or economic system consists of the production, distribution or trade, and consumption of limited goods and services

It's the second line in their game description, that should clue people in as to what they're getting into. If it's not for you that's fine, it is what it is. That won't change and that's a good thing because believe it or not, some of us love it.

"

TheWretch wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

why should I be in the same bazaar with you, if you enjoy being there and I don't?

Because that's the game you're playing.

"

Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. It is designed around a strong online item ECONOMY, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races.

"

Economy:
An economy or economic system consists of the production, distribution or trade, and consumption of limited goods and services

what I see, is Economy being listed as one of the features.
correct me if I'm wrong.
what personally caught my eye when I started playing long ago, and a main reason why I'm still here - is "deep character customization".
there is so much behind that short line. so much fun. so much depth and sophistication.

everyone gets to pick what draws him/her to Path Of Exile, and for me that's not the Economy. but currently I find it frustratingly hard to avoid it, which isn't good in my book.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

TheWretch wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

why should I be in the same bazaar with you, if you enjoy being there and I don't?

Because that's the game you're playing.

"

Path of Exile is an online Action RPG set in the dark fantasy world of Wraeclast. It is designed around a strong online item ECONOMY, deep character customisation, competitive PvP and ladder races.

"

Economy:
An economy or economic system consists of the production, distribution or trade, and consumption of limited goods and services

what I see, is Economy being listed as one of the features.
correct me if I'm wrong.
what personally caught my eye when I started playing long ago, and a main reason why I'm still here - is "deep character customization".
there is so much behind that short line. so much fun. so much depth and sophistication.

everyone gets to pick what draws him/her to Path Of Exile, and for me that's not the Economy. but currently I find it frustratingly hard to avoid it, which isn't good in my book.

I think we all know where you stand on trading. Thing is, that's an integral part of the game and no amount of rants will change that. If it's not for you best to come to terms with it instead of playing something you don't enjoy.

E: That's just it..this isn't your book, its GGG's. They like the economy being a focal point.

"

Jojas wrote:

"

Vaux wrote:

Not sure what in the world you're talking about. Diablo 2 was absolutely designed as an ARPG, what do you think defines the genre?

Diablo 3 was great at release - it was actually challenging and fun to play. If they just removed the AH but didn't make it into a single player game by removing all interaction with other players other than co-op it would be fantastic... unfortunately it's anything but.

I'm talking about multiplayer ARPG's. In my post. Where I repeatedly mention the word "multiplayer", and give a definition of it (the word "multiplayer"), replying to your post where you talked about multiplayer ARPG's, and where you gave a slightly different definition of it (the word "multiplayer").

Just to be sure: When I said "Diablo 2 wasn't designed as one.", I was referring to the "multiplayer" bit - not the ARPG bit - I mentioned in my first paragraph and you in your quote.

As John says below, Diablo 2 did not define the genre ARPG. Calling games like Diablo ARPG's is actually a new-gen thing. In the 80's and early 90's there were RPG's and ARPG's, and the defining difference between the two was that the former were turn-based and the latter were action-y. That's all. After Diablo and Diablo 2 became huge successes, games that were similar were called Diablo clones. And although people were not happy with that term, it stuck.
The shift to as we have it today came after the demise of turn-based and RTwP RPG's. Today what once would have been called ARPG's are called RPG's. And what once were Diablo clones are ARPG's.

And I didn't say Diablo 2 defined the genre, I asked what you think defines the genre of ARPGs. You simply stated the D2 was not designed as an ARPG, which I see you're now saying it wasn't designed as a multiplayer ARPG - which is still not true.

"

Diablo 2. Or does the Hellfire Torch somehow not count?

Also, you must have absolutely hated Median XL, which was designed entirely around progressing through bosses with loot tables. But keep ranting about how loot tables can't work in an aRPG, even though they were the foundation of one of the best game mods of all time, whose creator contributed to PoE, which, amusingly enough, also has a boss (Atziri) with a loot table.

You'll probably retort that Atziri's drops aren't BiS, which only highlights the strawman that founds your argument. No one's asking for guaranteed BiS drops; some of us just want a better correlation between risk/difficulty and reward. That doesn't mean guaranteeing anything; it just means that hard encounters like Eater of Souls should incentivize players more than trivial ones like Voll so that players will prefer the former.

Are you honestly saying that ONE item having a guaranteed drop = loot tables across the board? You just proved MY point by saying PoE has the same exact functionality with Atziri drops. There is not a single multiplayer ARPG in existence that has every boss with guaranteed loot tables.

It was 1000% harder to gear out a character in D2 than it is in PoE. Do you think anyone ever achieved a full inventory of 3/20/20 small charms without trading?

"

@RagnarokChu, that's exactly why it is important to have a good mix of content, which is collectively challenging for *most* builds, for every single risk/reward "tier".
what this ideally means, is in every part of the game from start, to finish, to end-game, to super-end-game - there will be content that kicks your ass into trying better, kicks Totem Guy's ass into trying better, and vice versa and repeat for next tier.
kicking ass, and encouraging to push further.

this of course is an Utopian vision and is next to impossible to achieve, especially in a game as astoundingly diverse as Path Of Exile.
such unparalleled diversity, that it's to me the defining feature about PoE more than any RNG black box or Economy "offar" bazaar will ever be.

but the key "keys" is offering here, is to actually try.
does Path Of Exile try? no. should it? hell yes. imo, it would propel it to "god game" status when GGG decide they should try.

P.S: builds that break the system? well building a character is a huge part of skill in the game. if you are skillful - that's also risk/reward.

You're admitting that an ARPG with difficulty for all builds at every encouter is pretty much impossible, I'm glad you finally made it here.

But now you're still seriously saying that putting in guaranteed loot tables for this broken risk/reward system is a good thing, even though the masses will just abuse op builds to steamroll all content, become infinitely wealthy off of these high loot tables from 'hard' bosses that they kill 200 times a day with their op build, and destroy the economy?

Again, multiplayer ARPGs are obviously not for you. You don't care at all about the overall health of the game if this is what you honestly think, you just care about your standalone, 'singleplayer' experience.

"

Vaux wrote:

Again, multiplayer ARPGs are obviously not for you. You don't care at all about the overall health of the game if this is what you honestly think, you just care about your standalone, 'singleplayer' experience.

will you just stop this shit?
look, we both know by your definition of "multiplayer ARPG", only Path Of Exile is one.
and yes, it is for me. otherwise I wouldn't be here for nearly 3 years. as long as you I bet. at least.
I enjoy it a lot. it's a great game and neither you nor anyone else has any damned right to tell me I should quit.

there are however some things I don't like, and yes I am extremely vocal about things I don't like. and yes, it is my right to be vocal and no one has any damned right to shut me - or anyone else for that matter - up.
which kind of is the whole point of this thread.
the point you seem to disagree about, and I have no clue why.

care about my own experience? interesting point.
every player cares about his/her own experience, including you and me.
but as a very long-time player and fan of the genre, I've seen stuff being implemented differently. implemented better. and in my opinion, GGG can implement it better too, and should. because it may just make the game even better than it already is.
better, primarily for people who don't like trade and wish their skill and dedication in the game itself meant something, rather than just their devotion to grinding the same things 100x times over, or their XYZ-posting and bartering-with-other-players skills.
is that such a narrow point of view? I don't think so.
is that such an unrealistic expectation? no.

"

Vaux wrote:

Are you honestly saying that ONE item having a guaranteed drop = loot tables across the board? You just proved MY point by saying PoE has the same exact functionality with Atziri drops. There is not a single multiplayer ARPG in existence that has every boss with guaranteed loot tables.

It was 1000% harder to gear out a character in D2 than it is in PoE. Do you think anyone ever achieved a full inventory of 3/20/20 small charms without trading?

Moving the goalposts is an admission that you don't have a coherent argument and aren't willing to listen to reason. You'll forgive me if I stop responding to you.