[Outdated] Zivko's CI Chaos Incinerate build - 200k dps / 10 000 ES

ok so... this build is not viable tempest HC ? and why going for CI instead of high life + mass def for tank build

Hi ogrec.

What are your thoughts on this passive tree:



It provides 34% more es inc (40% with Energy From Within unique jevel), 34% more mana inc at a cost of 20 dex and 22% less dmg inc and 2 jewel sockets. 34% more mana gives more space for higher lvl clarity and overall higher mana regen to support 6link with 20/20 faster projectiles for greater range in mapping and 20/20 culling strike / slower proj for boses.

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Indie_Gorilla wrote:

I was wondering if you still recieved the leech from fire leech BEFORE damage conversion. But judging from the fact that penetration has no effect I'd be inclined to think the same of fire leech to.

I apologize for my confusion :)
I saw the video that grocery made about the build where he wears a fire doryani belt, so i guess leech is applied before the conversion indeed.

Leech is calculated once you deal damage, it has no memory of what the damage was before conversions so you only leech from the actual damage you deal.

If you have 0.2% fire leech and convert all fire to chaos you won't leech anything.

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Mannoth wrote:

Leech is calculated once you deal damage

That was my first thought, but i guessed grocery would have tested that. Good to know :)

To everyone asking about leech:
Any fire leech on gear will not be applied (unless your using a special unique jewel that converts leech to chaos).
Also, i've been asked if emberwake ring is good for the build. It isnt. 100% of fire damage is converted to chaos, and without fire damage its impossible to ignite even with chance to ignite on the skill tree.

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KuaiGon wrote:

Hi! I reached lvl 84 in Warbands with my BM version of this build and I'm feeling quite powerful.

My gear:

Spoiler

My current tree:
http://tinyurl.com/otft33a
My plan to lvl 90 is to finish the fire wheel at the top of the tree. I have 2 points on resistances at marauder area that i'll drop as soon as Haku hits lvl7, just need to remove the str from the helm :D i would allocate them to reach fire walker node.

Mitigation:

Spoiler

I have 44% phys reduction, 60% with 4 endurance charges, 84% with iron skin granite. This made me drop Immortal Call safely (IF you make good use of Whirling blades lol); 5.2k life, over 450liferegen. 100% chance to avoid Stun while casting, 30% while not casting (not an issue when you exceed 4k life and i also have some stun recovery :D). I run enfeeble since i think its the best curse overall for this build at least for bosses, but for mapping in general TC would be ok as well. Warlords mark is another option if you still want to use LL gem (i dont as explained below).

I died 4 times total, 2 being random dc, 1 due to doing a 72 zana map when i was lvl66 and the last 1 due to attempting quarry boss having -60%chaosres (didnt knew about this boss, now solved with gear reached 10% positive). I'm pretty much convinced this is HC viable, have to run higher maps than 74 still though. A thing to note is that Corrupting blood is far from being lethal due to high life regen. I havent tested -60% regen map mod, but i think it wont be a problem. Didnt find any map mod i couldnt work with so far.


On the other hand i have 900 ES provided by Infernal Mantle that arent efficient as being BM makes the ES recharge stop. This made me rethink about the chest piece, it might be better to drop that 25% conversion in order to get a rare 2karmour chest piece with life/str instead, and maybe dropping Empower for Faster casting since mana cost isnt a problem. I would love some thoughts on this, i'll do some tests when i can. I have a nice Phys reduction anyways though so idc much right now about min-maxing that aspect and i like a lot full chaos dmg.

Deeps:

Spoiler

My tooltip shows 12k with 5L LMP-Iron Will-ACD-Echo-Incinerate(lvl18), nothing is corrupted yet. I dropped LL since i have so much regen that it doesnt feel necessary as i spam EC to gain end charges linked with Inc Duration which provides a ton of extra regen for 1.2 seconds and relying on flasks for high hits. DPS with it instead of Iron Will is 10k which is still decent but as i said i prefer the dmg provided by IW. I'm using Clear Mind 59%, not using any other jewels atm. I guess one would want cast speed and dmg on them. I tried Blood rage, but even if it provides a lot of deeps, i feel more comfortable without it since i focus on regen. I'll try regular Atziri over the week and some high maps; will share the results then, videos included.
Note: Desert boss (Zana map lvl71) proved to be REALLY tanky in a 6 man party (resists chaos)

Thanks for reading, i apologize for any grammar mistakes as its not my native language. Waiting for your thoughts! :D

Its looking good. Have you tried using added lightning instead of added chaos? considering you have 5% chance to shock, it might boost clear speed even if you dont shock blues or rares. I'd be interested to hear if it helps or not so post results here if you try it.



christophenuss
Faster projectiles will be the best option for your 5th link.



RicoKGB
I have trouble opening the link, are you sure you copied entire link?
Anyway, based on the stats you posted, it sounds good. Build allows a lot of flexibility on the tree so feel free to experiment. Faster casting provides more damage then any other gem so if that skill tree allows you to work it in, go for it.

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ogrec wrote:

Its looking good. Have you tried using added lightning instead of added chaos? considering you have 5% chance to shock, it might boost clear speed even if you dont shock blues or rares. I'd be interested to hear if it helps or not so post results here if you try it.

Already tried that, since white mobs get instarekt anyways i would choose ACD to rise deeps overall. I also chose ACD before Faster Casting because as BM i think its more efficient in terms of survivability (more spare life regen while casting) even if i can totally afford the life cost of the skill.

I encountered a guy in the sarn arena who is doing a very similar build but with block on tree, seemed pretty solid although i don't know how to get block efficiently, i added him as friend for science so i'll ask him for his tree to gain some more insight on that matter.

I'm also a bit lost on the mantle corrupting matter, if you give me a couple of hints to do it properly i'd be most grateful.

I'll try regular atziri this weekend and upload a video.

On Tempest 92, a few maps from 93. I'm out of town for another week but I'll be pushing for 100 when I get back.

I've of course adjusted the build for HC and Tempest. You can see my gear in the previous post. The only things that have changed are a shield with more ES and rearrangement of gems to accommodate a more defensive bent to the setup.

I am at 10.8k ES and 17k TT LMP dps. Since this is 100% chaos damage, for most maps it has faster clear speed than with fire focused Incinerate with fire pen. Wait til you do maps with 80% fire resistant maps with rares that have intrinsic and explicit added fire resistance and elemental resistance. 100% chaos is overall better even with little less dps than fire.

MAPPING

Like I've said before, a build that cannot map well in today's meta of doing the most insane maps with crazy mods is a build that is shit tier to me. In order to map at a good pace, you must also have good defenses, especially in Tempest. For anyone in Tempest, I highly recommend you make the adjustments that I did before doing the great map xp grind. Here's a review of it with some added stuff:

1. Have EC on manual cast somewhere. Always have either charges up or on cooldown when you are anywhere near phys dmg mobs (e.g. birds or spikers on a gmp map with extra dmg mods...you better have ec/ic up).
2. Have the standard cwdt with IC and Enfeeble. Leech is nice as an added survival mechanism but if you are using it as your primary defensive mechanism, you will likely die at some point.
3. You have room for a 2nd cwdt or another 4 sockets for more survivability. Presently my extra 4 socket looks like this:

I have EC, Vaal Dsic and chaos golem with minion life. I am thinking of removing the chaos golem completely and adding in a 2nd Vaal Discipline with Increased Duration. The reasons for this is because the chaos golem dies so easily. It really doesn't give distraction to anything important (anything that'll kill you will kill the golem in a couple hits) and it dies instantly in the harder maps. One weakness of a CI build is the lack of an emergency button and 2 vaal disciplines with increased duration act like Seething life flasks in those situations, which come up a lot in the hard maps.
4. Ignore the damage nodes near shadow until you have all the ES nodes. There actually aren't that many ES nodes so by the time you are 92/93 you can go into all damage if you want. There isn't such a thing as too much ES in Tempest.
5. You must recognize the defensive weaknesses (and strength) of this build is due to CI. I wanted to do a CI build to see what state it is in and also because most CI gear is cheap as shit on Tempest atm. So when I point out defensive deficencies of this build, it probably is not due to Ogrec but the intrinsic dangers of being CI. CI simply is not as good defensively as a 7-8k life or hybrid build right now for Tempest. But I think it should be doable to get to 100 with this. Also, if people are not going CI, why are you using this guide? I can point you to life or hybrid based builds that also go 100% fire to chaos conversion. You would be dumb to use these trees if you are going life because some of the best life nodes are out of the way and you'd take different dps nodes near those great life nodes instead of some of the ones in this guide. I just don't get it. It's like the guy in the block based build that refused to get block nodes..why go use a block based build when you won't get block. But I still applaud Ogrec for helping anyone who asks in this thread

The only map mod that is undoable is Blood Magic. All other are doable for the trash at least. There have been only 2 bosses that I have skipped. Malformation map with double boss lmp Piety. No way this build can kill her with those mods. The next was Excavation map with bunch of extra damage mods but more importantly Restorative Tempest so that they'd get healed to full when you are running around to the next guy with link open (damageable). The damage is so high that you can't tank all 3 with this build and common maps mods. And without tanking all 3 you'll end up taking too much dmg because you can't leech any back since you are often stuck with only invulnerable mobs in range.

I tried not to use Chayula for about 10 77-78 maps. For most it was still smooth (my other neck adding 2k tooltip lmp dps helped) but there was just too much chance to rip in a bad situation. The only time I'll remove Chayula is for no regen maps to put on an Elreon neck (and a 2nd Elreon ring) to put my mana cost to zero.

p.s. Please let the HC and HC temp league players judge if builds are HC viable. You should see the facepalms in chats we give to builds that have "I only died a few times...ya this is HC viable"-kind of statements in it.

Could you see this build becoming Uber viable given the appropriate #of exalts in upgrades + perhaps a bit specialization?

Haderach99
That's a really good write up and gz on reaching such a high level with the adjusted build on tempest. I hope you don't mind, i've added a quote of your post to the build guide since i think it's good to have hardcore player's perspective. I can remove it if you don't want it there, let me know.



dxmzmx
5L shavs, RF and lvl 4 empower would do the trick, without any changes to the skill tree. For nuking bosses even rare dmg+casts speed amulet could be used.

Alternatively, without shavs, its possible to nuke double vaal by respecing out of CI and picking pain attunement for the fight and using RF to further boost the dmg.
For trio replacing life leech with spell totem for Incinerate till first boss is dead should be enough.
And Atziri probably shouldn't be that difficult with trick showed in one of the videos, standing in a corner to out-range spear atziri with faster projectiles. For extra safety, its possible to get higher level enlighten and use PoF instead of AA and Rise of the Phoenix instead of the rare shield (8% fire res provides higher effective life pool against flameblasts and storm colls then es provided by the rare shield)

I've uploaded a video of double vaal fight in regular apex to show how going low life with RF would look. Theres no chaos damage in double vaal or atziri room's so its possible to go low life without shavs in both fights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gzVkO82lF4
Note that i'm only using lvl 1 RF in that clip, and i've used lvl 1 purity of ice +bm to go low life. 20/20 RF would bring the dps to ~290k, and Anger could be used as low life aura to bring dps over 300k.