[2.1] Dariidar's CoC & Magma Orb KNOCKBACK!

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Hostility00 wrote:

Question about off-hand.. I am using a ES shield atm because of the spell dmg and resistances. It seems because we are going evasion that I should be trying to get a good evasion shield but then I get no spell damage at all.. + off hand doesn't give crit either so really what would be better + 50% spell damage and resistances or 1500 evasion and resistances.

Also I am interested in knowing what you think the best uniques would be for this build.. I know you dont have them listed because this build is pretty cheap but if you had no currency issues what would you prioritize?


Also I don't like the need to keep the frenzy charge buff with the extra skill.. the buff doesnt last too long even with all of the passives and needing to hit a mob 4-5 times just to get it before I can start throwing balls out really doesn't interest me. Have you ever considered throwing poachers mark into the build at all? I know we got a curse with CWDT and thats fine but even manually cursing with poachers before throwing balls out feels better.. what is your opinion on poachers mark and if you were to throw it in the build what would u put with it.

For shields, it's up to you.. but I would go for an ES shield for damage. We don't grab any shield defence nodes on the tree, and eventually you'll want higher damage to make better use of Life Leech. I've found that I still have very decent evasion (14k) with just a jade flask of reflexes; a nice evasion shield would give me a few thousand more but it's not worth losing 10-20% of my dps. Dual wield is also an option, although a shield can provide slightly more life for you and is a good middle ground.

Best uniques - 6-link Voll's, Atziri's Step, Rat's Nest, and Maligaro's Virtuosity. Might be hard to fit all of them into a build because there's no resistances on those items. I would prioritize Atziri's Step > 6L Voll's > Maligaro/Rat's Nest (maybe slightly favoring Maligaro).

Frenzy charges - that's okay, it's not for everyone.. If you use the Frenzy - CoC - Blood Rage - Ice Golem setup then you only have to cast Frenzy 1 or 2 times before demolishing a map. For long boss/rare/exile fights you'd throw out a Frenzy once every 13 seconds just to refresh the Frenzy & Blood Rage & Ice Golem buff. I don't think that's a bad deal, refreshing 3 buffs for one action. If that's still too often for you, I suggest using a Quill Rain in your weapon swap to rapidly spam Frenzy, you could build up max charges in under 2 seconds.

I dislike Poacher's Mark because it doesn't work in a long fight against a boss. Your Frenzy charges will run out after 13 seconds. Poacher's Mark works best when clearing maps, but honestly our mob clear is just fine - you need Frenzy charges most when you're fighting a powerful single target. Also, if you're using purity auras there isn't much room for a herald + curse on hit setup, and I think those are too unreliable anyways. That said, Poacher's Mark is excellent for dealing with reflect mobs since our Barrage and Ball Lightning and Magma orb hit enemies multiple little times. It also helps with our accuracy and dealing crits.

Maybe try frenzy - gmp - curse on hit - poacher's mark? That way, you can keep up frenzy charges against boss fights that last longer than 13 seconds. Or, you can just self-cast Poacher's Mark / link a faster casting gem to it, but you'll have no Frenzy in those long fights.

I know that after we get Life Leech/Vaal Pact, Blood Rage is no longer an option anyways - I will probably use Blood Dance boots after Vaal Pact, but will continue using frenzy - coc - ice golem setup.

Been wanting to play this build but with glacial cascade+magma orb. Do you think it would have a similar effectiveness?

Thanks for all the info.. great build so far.. level 71 and loving it.

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ZachAttack2K13 wrote:

Been wanting to play this build but with glacial cascade+magma orb. Do you think it would have a similar effectiveness?

I have no clue, try it out!

I suspect that glacial would give less knockbacks than ball lightning, and it doesn't fully take advantage of all the projectile nodes we grabbed on the skilltree. Furthermore, it puts you at a slightly more dangerous range. But if you ever end up doing it, let me know how it goes.

P.S. Raizqt did a similar knockback build with spectral throw CoC, ball lightning and glacial - however I dont think he took projectile nodes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imiw8Vdflec&feature=youtu.be&t=21m9s

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dariidar wrote:

Looks great so far!

Get acro when you feel like your life is starting to dip too low on encounters. I did it mid-cruel, perhaps right before act 4.

otherwise, looking good. I would go for depth perception and then maybe Thick Skin. Then after that Heartseeker -> ranger evasion & life. Keep alternating between a few levels of crit nodes, then a few levels of life nodes; there's plenty of life down in the ranger/duelist areas.

I don't like doedre's elixir, never found it necessary. I'd rather have an extra resist/life/mana flask.

A note on attack speed - if you follow the last few pages of this thread you'll see that there are 2 ways to optimize barrage coc dps: high attack speed ( aiming for 3-4 aps) or low attack speed (must be below the breakpoint which is either 2.05 or 2.2 aps, needs further testing)

If you're playing the slower barrage version (which is a bit less skillpoint-intensive bc less investment required on attack speed nodes) then don't get AS jewels. If you're playing the faster version (works very well with dual wield and frenzy charge stacking!) then AS is cool.

Also nice are crit chance while dual wielding, crit multi, spell/projectile/elemental damage. Life is always good.TRY NOT TO GET PROJECTILE SPEED!!! It will make your Ball Lightning travel faster than Magma Orb and possibly knock it out of range before Magma Orb can arrive. At the same time it also decreases the amount of hits Ball Lightning can deal to an enemy (which may skew knockback chance). I don't have exact numbers on how it will affect knockback , but just assume that 30%+ projectile speed will make this build all screwy.

So how do i continue to scale up damage as i start to min/max my gear using the slower 2.05aps version?

Doesn't crit multiplier only impact my barrage damage? So wouldn't spell damage be the BEST to have? Is it better than ele/projectile dmg?

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D6vil wrote:

Doesn't crit multiplier only impact my barrage damage? So wouldn't spell damage be the BEST to have? Is it better than ele/projectile dmg?

"Critical Strike multiplier while dual wielding" will only affect your barrage damage. But multiplier with spells, or just plain crit multiplier, on jewels will increase your spells' damage as well. Yes, multiplier is generally better than normal increased % spell/projectile damage. Try to get increased global crit multiplier on your weapons, you will see a dps boost.

"Increased %spell/projectile/ele damage" are all the same, they are all added together in the calculation of your dps. Note that we already get like 170% increased damage from the skilltree, so obtaining extra increased% damage rolls is not quite as good as adding flat damage or multipliers. Since your dps is calculated like this:

(flat damage) * (total %increased damage) * (multiplier 1) * (multiplier 2)....

If your increased damage is like 400%, then adding something like 20% extra increased damage will have little effect on your overall dps, whereas more flat damage or multipliers will be much better.


To continue multiplying your damage, you can use Frenzy charges, critical strike multiplier, and Righteous Fire (Note that RF is kind of dangerous with Vaal Pact). Maligaro's virtuosity will give a pretty significant damage bonus as well.

Really, I wouldn't worry about dps too much. My dps is just fine at level 87, in 76 maps. I kill most things in 2-3 barrages, with an aps of 3.3, 4 frenzy charges, 5 power charges. survivability is great with close to 4800 health. My wands each costed less than 20 chaos (your mileage may vary). Buffed Magma orb = 5000 per cast, ball lightning = 900 (x 4-5) per cast. Here is my updated gear:

Is it viable leveling with magma orb and ball lightning? Firestorm and arc seems kind of weak.

Also could you use slower proj for single target?

It's certainly viable to use Magma orb and Ball Lightning early on, but you kind of need a 5-6 link to do it. I included firestorm and arc as a suggestion for those who only have a 4link for barrage - coc - firestorm - arc. If you have a tabula you can use the BL + MO setup, but you can also experiment with other projectiles that look interesting (fireball, ice spear, arctic breath , etc). Ball Lightning and Magma orb shine more when you have knockback jewels which you'd probably attain around level 60 or so.

Slower proj is all right. You really should get power charge on crit if you're on Tabula, though. If you have 6link volls you can try it. However, I believe that slower proj only slows down the Ball Lightning and not the Magma Orb. The effect this has is that Magma Orb shoots out in front of the ball lightning, and the ball can't knock back the enemies into the second magma orb explosion. I would probably just stick with Life Leech for 6th link for more survivability.

As I've said a few other times this thread, single target is fine in the current setup, no slower proj needed. Bosses/rares/exiles cannot touch you, you knock them back so hard!! The few bosses which can't be knocked back (Vaal) get double hit by magma orb anyways.

I meant swapping out GMP for slower proj on hard boss fights, but thanks for the fast response :)