Pointless argument about chance and randomness

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Ah Salty you know me too well. :)

Yes, they're complete LUXURY items.

The painful ability to not be able to fuse is there for a reason. It's to prevent people from trying. Yes, it is a.psychological barrier.

If you could only ever upgrade your gear, why would anyone ever trade anything? Why would people sell fusings, why would someone sell jewelers, why would people sell regals?

No one would. Because you could keep using them without any consequences

That's not the same thing the thread is suggesting and you know it. Please re-read the thread or re-phrase what you said because it is simply not true.

The argument made here is that it is enough to waste currency to improve an item, but to end up with something WORSE than what you started with is more than a pain in the ass... in fact, it could cause some people to just quit the game because effort was given and with little or no result.

Suggesting a change to a system is a great idea, especially if it has a flaw. In this case we are arguing that it is flawed and would request a change. No idea is perfect, but identifying the problem always comes first.

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DashSlash wrote:

My suggestion for Jewlers/fusings/chromatics is to make the new roll optional. Say you have a 5l armor and want to 6l it. Right now, you need to stockpile hundreds of these orbs to have a fairly safe chance of not screwing yourself over. But what if instead you could accept/decline the new roll. The orb would be consumed regardless of your choice, but you wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot just by trying to improve your gear. It would still take the same number of orbs on average, but the player would have more incentive to use their orbs, even if they just had a few. Thoughts?

The reason this idea appears to be a good fix in my eyes is because it keeps the current system WITHOUT the flaw. The flaw is that you can and will get something worse than what you have in hand. We like the idea of a gamble, but it would still feel rewarding to gamble without the feeling that you may lose more than just your currency for what you are about to do.

I can say that almost every time I use a fusing or jewelers on something that's already good "as is" that I could just about piss myself if it ends up I run out of my currency and I'm stuck with a single link/ single gem slot.

TL;DR Reward the gambler for taking a risk, but don't scare away the player from attempting a risk.

My first point of it being a psychological barrier is dead on. You yourself just.proved why. You COULD end up with something wors

The point about trading was in regards to the person who suggested a yes/no confirm on accepting or.rejecting the roll. You would ALWAYS improve your gear. Thus removing the psychological barrier I just referenced. Why would anyone trade items, if they KNEW it would always improve their gear?

Yes. You could end up using all of them with nothing to show for it. But it never made your gear worse. That is my point. No one would trade those orbs. Ever. Because it can only benefit them.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

My first point of it being a psychological barrier is dead on. You yourself just.proved why. You COULD end up with something wors

The point about trading was in regards to the person who suggested a yes/no confirm on accepting or.rejecting the roll. You would ALWAYS improve your gear. Thus removing the psychological barrier I just referenced. Why would anyone trade items, if they KNEW it would always improve their gear?

Yes. You could end up using all of them with nothing to show for it. But it never made your gear worse. That is my point. No one would trade those orbs. Ever. Because it can only benefit them.

Currency is currency. It would always have value. If it will give me a 1/100 shot to get a 5 or 6 link item then I would trade other items (chaos orbs or gcp, etc.) to get more jewelers or whatever.

Your argument doesn't seem to hold much weight right now. Are you sure you aren't just afraid of a little change? Regardless of how the system is changed, can you at least agree that "it needs a change" ???

Surely you could agree. There is a problem here.

Actually. No.

Anything I have set.out to craft, I have been able to do so. I've made 3 6Ls. Some of the highest ES in game. And several wands.

Those who take the risk are rewarded eventually. Sometimes quickly. Sometimes painfully slowly.

Being able to reject something you don't like is......

Too easy.

The only crafting items that can't make your items worse are the ones that work on white items: Transmutation, Alchemy, and Chance orbs. every single other crafting item has the potential to make an item worse. it's not just jewlers and fusings.

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sage2050 wrote:

The only crafting items that can't make your items worse are the ones that work on white items: Transmutation, Alchemy, and Chance orbs. every single other crafting item has the potential to make an item worse. it's not just jewlers and fusings.

you forgot about gemcutter prisms. guaranteed improvement which breaks with the general "all random"-philosopy. and thats the reason why they're the ingame currency more or less.

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geradon wrote:

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sage2050 wrote:

The only crafting items that can't make your items worse are the ones that work on white items: Transmutation, Alchemy, and Chance orbs. every single other crafting item has the potential to make an item worse. it's not just jewlers and fusings.

you forgot about gemcutter prisms. guaranteed improvement which breaks with the general "all random"-philosopy. and thats the reason why they're the ingame currency more or less.

you're right, i didn't account for quality items (whetstones and armor scraps too)

With your suggested change they'd have to make the chance of failing (aka decreasing the number of links/sockets) much higher. If it was 50/50 it'd be way too easy to get 6L.

I do agree something needs to be done about the randomization of jewelers and fusing. I have used 8 stacks of jorbs on my chest piece to get either 5-6 sockets and have been unsuccessful.

8 stacks... I have rage quit this game so much lately due to needing a 5L bow and 5L chest.

However I don't want it to easy, but seriously maybe i just have the worst luck with jewelers and fusing.

Maybe reduce the chance of getting 1 or 2 sockets in an item with Jewelers greatly and reduce the chance of getting 1 or 2 links with fusing. No one wants these

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sage2050 wrote:

you're right, i didn't account for quality items (whetstones and armor scraps too)

Regals, augmentations, Exalteds... Just to nitpick. :p