Pointless argument about chance and randomness

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DashSlash wrote:

My suggestion for Jewlers/fusings/chromatics is to make the new roll optional. Say you have a 5l armor and want to 6l it. Right now, you need to stockpile hundreds of these orbs to have a fairly safe chance of not screwing yourself over. But what if instead you could accept/decline the new roll. The orb would be consumed regardless of your choice, but you wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot just by trying to improve your gear. It would still take the same number of orbs on average, but the player would have more incentive to use their orbs, even if they just had a few. Thoughts?

I rather like this idea the most so far because it's more important that you didn't gain anything from your gamble and only end up losing some of your currency.... LIKE REAL GAMBLING.

However, I think the system now prevents me from wanting to spend 30+ jewelers to get a perfect item just because I'm afraid I might lose the 5S I had.

In other words, the system needs to encourage us to want to improve the item, not discourage, which I would argue is what is happening here.

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Yxalitis wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I for one think the current system is fine.

Be prepared to fail, and ecstatic if you get it. These orbs are no different than any other if you've crafted from a base white before. Don't get what you want? Scour and start over.

Same principle. Chaos can make things worse. Divines, blessed can too.

You realise the current system means to get 6L may take in excess of 1,000 fusings

ONE THOUSAND

Is this expected, desirable, wanted, or just needlessly frustrating, time consuming, and pointless?

How rare do 6L's need to be?

Why do they have to be something you can only get by being stupidly lucky, or ridiculous amounts of grinding.

I mean, really 1,000???!!

you are literally talking to a brick wall, slayer is one of the few elite players who will never budge on this topic. believe me many topics / threads and people have tried.

You see there is a minority of people in this game who have alot of time to actually get that 1000 fusing together.

Their argument is that making /getting 6l easy would invalidate the hard work it should take in getting 6l. To these people 6l is squarely a luxury. optional and should be a massive investment.

To an extent i am inclined to agree.

but at the same time, The system is simply too random. This is a system where a guy can get 6l in less than 10 fusing and start saying the system is perfect because clearly that person benefited. But this is also the same system that cause a man to quit the game forever after wasting 1500 fusings and literally half a year of life.

It is too random and needlessly frustrating. It benefits the lucky few and alienates the majority.

Not everyone has the time to piss away with such a system.

Therefore I believe that the system does need to change.

And i think the ops suggestion is a reasonable change with some tweaks of course

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DashSlash wrote:

My suggestion for Jewlers/fusings/chromatics is to make the new roll optional. Say you have a 5l armor and want to 6l it. Right now, you need to stockpile hundreds of these orbs to have a fairly safe chance of not screwing yourself over. But what if instead you could accept/decline the new roll. The orb would be consumed regardless of your choice, but you wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot just by trying to improve your gear. It would still take the same number of orbs on average, but the player would have more incentive to use their orbs, even if they just had a few. Thoughts?

I really like this idea, sounds perfect, the ability to use orbs (any really) but confirm or deny the added stat/link/color and if denied the item stays the same but you still use your currency.

Ah Salty you know me too well. :)

Yes, they're complete LUXURY items.

The painful ability to not be able to fuse is there for a reason. It's to prevent people from trying. Yes, it is a.psychological barrier.

If you could only ever upgrade your gear, why would anyone ever trade anything? Why would people sell fusings, why would someone sell jewelers, why would people sell regals?

No one would. Because you could keep using them without any consequences

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Yxalitis wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I for one think the current system is fine.

Be prepared to fail, and ecstatic if you get it. These orbs are no different than any other if you've crafted from a base white before. Don't get what you want? Scour and start over.

Same principle. Chaos can make things worse. Divines, blessed can too.

You realise the current system means to get 6L may take in excess of 1,000 fusings

ONE THOUSAND

Is this expected, desirable, wanted, or just needlessly frustrating, time consuming, and pointless?

How rare do 6L's need to be?

Why do they have to be something you can only get by being stupidly lucky, or ridiculous amounts of grinding.

I mean, really 1,000???!!

And to answer this question.

Because you don't need one.

I've known several people who have gone far past 1000 btw. So what?

Many of the responses I'm seeing in this topic are ideas to improve the chance of a 6L, but trying to mask this by inventing an entirely new mechanism for orb operation that simply has better odds of a 6L. I have to ask, why go through this convoluted process of trying to invent a new model if the only thing you really want is to adjust the odds of the outcomes?

If the odds are 1/1000 for a 6L and your complaint is that this is too low, then why not simply ask if the odds could be improved to 1/800, or something along these lines? Masking your complaint as a completely new orb interaction is too indirect to be effective at addressing the issue.

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DashSlash wrote:

My suggestion for Jewlers/fusings/chromatics is to make the new roll optional. Say you have a 5l armor and want to 6l it. Right now, you need to stockpile hundreds of these orbs to have a fairly safe chance of not screwing yourself over. But what if instead you could accept/decline the new roll. The orb would be consumed regardless of your choice, but you wouldn't be shooting yourself in the foot just by trying to improve your gear. It would still take the same number of orbs on average, but the player would have more incentive to use their orbs, even if they just had a few. Thoughts?

A good idea.

I can guarantee all the suggestions in this thread will never make it in the game, except for maybe increasing the odds of rolling a 6L, but even then I'm willing to bet a decent amount of money that they won't do that.

Seriously though, there is far too much "qq rng too random". So what, you might spend 1-2000 fusings on a 6L (that you most definitely do not need). In other games you might spend millions and millions of gold or even hundreds of real dollars just to get an upgrade. What's the difference? And, please, "wasting half a year" just because you don't roll a 6L? If you feel any of your time in game is wasted you should very seriously rethink what game you're playing. This is a very hardcore game for a very hardcore audience. It's supposed to be ridiculously difficult to get end-game gear, and if you think a 6L is anything but an end-game luxury, you're kidding yourself. By the time you can even remotely say you need a 6L, you should have quite a bit of wealth built up and 1000 fusings shouldn't really be such an absolutely insane price to pay.

This is coming from someone that's not even level 50, on "scrubcore" at that.

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xenogias wrote:

Hell it takes me almost a stack of fusing to even make a 3link. I tried earlier today and used 10 fusings going from 1 link to 0 link and back before I closed the game raging.

found a axe with good stats last week:

after the third jeweler it was 6 socketed and with wet hands i searched for my fusings and ... bang... 5 linked after 6 orbs. happiest day of my gamer life so far.

for the topic: i never change stats on gear i currently use and so think the system is fine as it is. people keep grinding because it's so hard to roll good stats. in closed beta one guy even applied around 1000 or more fusings to get an item 6 linked ... and failed.
guess he's still playing because the game is challenging him.

Games like this need gear that is nearly unobtainable. It shouldn't be any and every piece, and it shouldn't be gear that is necessary to progress, but there should always be that perfect item, just over the next hill. Otherwise, why would people bother to continue playing?

6link items are a luxury. There are few builds that will fall apart without a 6link item. I am confident in saying that you can complete all of the currently available content without a single 6link item, nearly regardless of your build.

It's fine if they're desirable, rare and difficult to craft. Items like that will keep me playing to eventually further my character. Even if I never obtain it, so what? The point isn't whether or not you are actually going to get it. The point is that you can try for it, and it gives you something to strive for.

Everybody can't have perfect rolls on all their gear. Not everyone will be able to have a 6link. I'm okay with that. I may never see a 6link item drop or craft for me in years of playing this game, and I'm okay with that too.

But I'll still keep trying.


That's the lifeblood of this genre.

TBH, I like the current chance from fusing&jewelers orbs to obtain 5-6l (and I never had one of them), but they should be really better to get 3-4l. They are so bad that if I find a godly item with only 1s I won't even bother to try to use them on it (unless it's high end).

I agree that you have to hoard these orbs to have the ''luxury'' of a 5-6l endgame, not so for the ''commodity'' of a 3-4l midgame.