Trading for Newbies

Bottom line is: stop taking low-balls as offensive.

Do you think ignoring people who can't afford to pay well is ethical? In that case, you need to check your own ethics.

Low-balls only prove that my item is worth it. I get low-balled all the time for my good items and it's good.

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Chundadragon wrote:

It's not about respect.

If economics textbooks were filled with respect, the bankers today would be Removed by Support.

That is proper trading.

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Reseachers Measure Spam Success Rate: 1 in 12.5 Million
http://www.techvibes.com/blog/reseachers-measure-spam-success-rate-1-in-12.5-million

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Chundadragon wrote:

Btw, the communism argument is actually very appropriate with what you just said.

Being ethical and respectful of the people you interact with in business is not communism. There is a reason people look at spam with contempt and largely ignore it. If you think spamming is successful long-term business strategy, I feel for you.

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Chundadragon wrote:

Bottom line is: stop taking low-balls as offensive.

Do you think ignoring people who can't afford to pay well is ethical? In that case, you need to check your own ethics.

Low-balls only prove that my item is worth it. I get low-balled all the time for my good items and it's good.

Again, you think its okay to low-ball me despite me objecting to it, you have no respect for me. Its rather offensive that you are telling me what I should or should not get offended by. You do not control my experience. The only ones who feels its okay to impede on another experience for personal benefit is people like you. You do not have too but you really should not tell other people what they should or should not get offended by. I do not like spammers and low-ballers and think they make trading a lot more painful than it has to be. You can always ignore me if you have problem with that.

Billy,

It is a huge conflict of interest to preach "ethics" and "morals" in a free market economy with 0 regulation. There are no ethics. Trading in this game is the Wild West. Nothing has a set price and every sale can be haggled and misrepresented.

If an item is priced at 1 chaos but is really worth 1 exalt that is called opportunity. Business is business. If you take business personal then you shouldn't play the trading game. It's not about "respect" or "feelings", it's simply business. People have goals and you are a means to their end whether you are buying or selling. The minute you take this personally, that is the minute you fail as a trader.

Don't take this the wrong way but this is basically a "trading for newbies" guide. You didn't really provide any advice on how to build wealth or achieve your goals (which you state is being able to purchase gear). If that is a TRUE goal, don't you think you should aim to be able to buy what you want in the most efficient and effective way?

The only point I agree with is:

5. Do not complain about the price. Keep it simple, state what you will pay and if its not accepted or sufficiently countered, move on.

Everything else is essentially moot. I know what you're saying about how you should trade, but it seems like you're just listing your gripes from personal experience with buyers using aggressive and standoffish techniques.

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joebagz wrote:

It is a huge conflict of interest to preach "ethics" and "morals" in a free market economy with 0 regulation. There are no ethics. Trading in this game is the Wild West. Nothing has a set price and every sale can be haggled and misrepresented.

I do not think I've implied otherwise. This has zero relevance.

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If an item is priced at 1 chaos but is really worth 1 exalt that is called opportunity. Business is business. If you take business personal then you shouldn't play the trading game. It's not about "respect" or "feelings", it's simply business. People have goals and you are a means to their end whether you are buying or selling. The minute you take this personally, that is the minute you fail as a trader.

I disagree completely and its not about "taking it personally". Its not about feelings either. It is about ethics and integrity and respect which are crucial keys to success in almost ANY business. If you think its ethical to walk into wal-mart and see an item that is obviously priced incorrectly and attempt to purchase it for that price, I think you need to study ethics. If you think taking advantage of ignorance is how reputable people and businesses conduct themselves, you need to do a little more studying in business. Business is the absolute worse analogy you can use when discussing the market place place in this game. Frankly, you will not be in business very long if you take advantage of people. As far as opportunity goes, there is a line between being opportunistic and predatory. If you want to discuss business aspect of this, I can show 100 successful business that are more successful by not taking advantage of an ignorant customer for ever one trying to take'em for all their worth. Generally and in most cases what probably occurs is the people taking advantage of the opportunities will never do business with the people they rip off ever again. Comparing these opportunistic people to businesses is not very relevant here and in fact hurts your argument to use "it's business" as valid excuse to behave this way.

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Don't take this the wrong way but this is basically a "trading for newbies" guide. You didn't really provide any advice on how to build wealth or achieve your goals (which you state is being able to purchase gear). If that is a TRUE goal, don't you think you should aim to be able to buy what you want in the most efficient and effective way?

I think you missed the point. Its about how you approach people in the market place. With that said, low-balling people and spamming people is NOT the most efficient way to do business/trade, its the least efficient. I'm willing to bet, if my rules are followed, buyers will be more effective and efficient at buying items. Now if you want to discuss profit and how to make the most out of every transaction, well this thread is not for you and most people do not play this game to get digitally rich.

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Everything else is essentially moot. I know what you're saying about how you should trade, but it seems like you're just listing your gripes from personal experience with buyers using aggressive and standoffish techniques.

The problem with this is, in my opinion, the only people who seem to have a problem so far are the ones who thinks its totally acceptable to take advantage of people. You may think this is okay, I do not and it does not invalidate my point as you think it does. You are welcome to disagree.

I don't really see how the practices of reputable businesses are particularly relevant. Trading in this game is not like operating a Starbucks, which needs to have a good reputation for coffee and service to attract return customers; the vast majority of trades you'll conduct here will be a one-off experience with a customer. What that customer thinks of you afterward is unlikely to materially affect your ability to earn currency. Reputation is only really relevant to cross-league trading, mirror services and atziri services.

That said, I don't disagree that it'd be nice if people conducted themselves in a respectful way and without trying to rip people off left and right. But I suspect that those who get thousands of exalts quickly by acting out their Donald Trumpian fantasies probably enjoy the spoils less than those who put in truly hard yards. It's somewhat self-defeating to focus so much on trading that you enjoy ripping others off more than the game itself.

I wonder how many of the "opportunistic" people would take advantage of a friend that just started playing the game. For example, their friend gets a Astramentis to drop but he does not know the value. I mean, obviously the opportunistic people will offer 1c and have no qualms about ripping their friend off because its "simply business".

Perhaps. But, to be tongue in cheek for a moment, you can always say to such a person:

"I may always be poor, but you, sir, will always be an arsehole"

;) Srsly devs just humour no banz pls.