Death Penalty Adjustment Discussion

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Emphasy wrote:

150ms should be perfectly fine to play on.

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I remember when I started playing online having a Ping of 400 was awesome and we played games like Quake with that, so I don't really feel that uncomfortable with 150ms ping as long as it is stable.

Yeah, as long as its stable I am perfectly fine with 150ms ping. Problem is, it rarely is. I usually have a lag spike to >500ms at least once a minute, even in good conditions. I did not realize how much of a problem it was until recently because my first character is very tanky with high life regen.

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Emphasy wrote:

The issue really is constant spikes that push your ping up to a 4 digit number for just a short time (basically no data gets through for that time). And that is what likely kills people.

At least that is what kills me. 500ms spikes I survive almost always, what really kills me is the 2000ms+ spikes. And sometimes it is very weird, the other day I could see my health going down, but drinking flasks had no effect. So I died.

To be more exact, btw, the ping ingame hovers around 147-148ms with a lot of upward spikes. I was rounding when I said 150ms.


As for the ISPs, well, true. Then again, I am only living here for a limited amount of time. And my motivation to have discussions with ISPs here is... well, limited.

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Char1983 wrote:

"

Emphasy wrote:

150ms should be perfectly fine to play on.

[...]

I remember when I started playing online having a Ping of 400 was awesome and we played games like Quake with that, so I don't really feel that uncomfortable with 150ms ping as long as it is stable.

Yeah, as long as its stable I am perfectly fine with 150ms ping. Problem is, it rarely is. I usually have a lag spike to >500ms at least once a minute, even in good conditions. I did not realize how much of a problem it was until recently because my first character is very tanky with high life regen.

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Emphasy wrote:

The issue really is constant spikes that push your ping up to a 4 digit number for just a short time (basically no data gets through for that time). And that is what likely kills people.

At least that is what kills me. 500ms spikes I survive almost always, what really kills me is the 2000ms+ spikes. And sometimes it is very weird, the other day I could see my health going down, but drinking flasks had no effect. So I died.

To be more exact, btw, the ping ingame hovers around 147-148ms with a lot of upward spikes. I was rounding when I said 150ms.


As for the ISPs, well, true. Then again, I am only living here for a limited amount of time. And my motivation to have discussions with ISPs here is... well, limited.

As shady as some ISPs are in the US, they still typically admit when they are wrong and try to fix it.


You are describing basically an "over sell" situation, the only time you have issues is when your local "pipe" is having issues because your ISP oversold the amount of bandwidth they can support, not sure what you can do from a customer standpoint, but if you were in the US, you can file a complain with BBB, contact customer support, typically 1 person won't cause them to upgrade the infrastructure, so you likely need to contact neighbors and other people having issues as well.

Lockstep *should* be playable at that ping, even if the delay seems significant to start, it gets better over time, typically the higher the ping the longer it takes to adjust.


I can understand where you are coming from and if it wasn't an ISP overload issue, you'd have more options, but atlas an ISP is your responsibility as a consumer.

Well, I could try switching ISPs, but I highly doubt that the other ones are better.

At least someone is understanding what I am talking about. Thanks.

Lockstep just feels sooo bad. But yeah, maybe it prevents me from getting killed. It shows me a lot better though what I actually do. And why sometimes monsters won't die.

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Faendris wrote:

I do believe that the death penalty is a very important tool to separate viable from non-viable builds in non-hardcore leagues. In the current system, there is no way to go all the way to 100 (or even >95) if your defense is not rock solid. This is a very good thing.

True, I have cursed and yelled when I died at lvl 99. But in a non-hardcore league this is just a set back. You can learn from your mistake, improve and go on to reaching level 100. Thus I do believe that the current death penalty is quite OK.

i share this post so deep.

Keep Death Penalty!! plzz!

maybe in order to the main Thread upgrade the map drop in higher lvls, to make leveling more balanced.
i understand that doing lvl 73 maps with lvl 90 is boring and doesn´t make fun !

cheers.

I wouldn't have problems with death penalty if the game wasnt desyncing all the time, dont need to change death penalty, need to change that sync system, god, this sucks so much....

I play lots of different games and not a single one desyncs like that, they can lag, but its less dangerous than those desyncs

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ProtoPoto wrote:

I wouldn't have problems with death penalty if the game wasnt desyncing all the time, dont need to change death penalty, need to change that sync system, god, this sucks so much....

I play lots of different games and not a single one desyncs like that, they can lag, but its less dangerous than those desyncs

This sounds so like 2014. Did you play this game since 2.0 ?

i love the death penalty, if it didnt exist then softcore would be completely pointless imo and Im not sure id keep playing. As far as i am concerned it has to stay, the nerf from 15% to 10%... ok its still meaningful, any further nerf or removal I would protest from the rooftops basically.

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Dawmz wrote:

This sounds so like 2014. Did you play this game since 2.0 ?

You are aware that not for everyone it is possible to play on lockstep, right?

+1 to ProtoPoto.

I think a key issue people are completely disconnected with here is the fact fun builds can hit brick walls to the point they are no longer fun to play. To say the game becomes tedious (even for viable builds) once you hit ~90 is an understatement. For casual players, they just don't want to play anymore when the only way they can see progress is to run really hard content which can often kill them; wiping any and all progress they have made (and often putting them worse off than when they started). This is a completely flawed system, and to say it's viable is simply foolish. There's a fundamental difference between difficulty and punishment. PoE punishes players; and the punishment is even worse now with all of the augments one can encounter in custom maps (e.g. the game has many more ways to kill you with 2.0 than the previous releases). As I've mentioned many times, every player I've known who played PoE and quit has done so SOLELY because of the death penalty. Why? Because why play when you're 85+ on your favorite build/character, and the content you're required to run in order to make any viable progress can have the occasional "GOTCHA!" that sets you back hours, or even days. PoE is a very difficult game; fine. But don't punish players. Instead limit in some fashion how far they can go - but don't take their time, energy and effort.

What blows my mind is the sheer amount of time it takes to level up once you've reached 90+ (for a non-hardcore player) is so monumentally burdensome anyway, even if the death penalty was completely removed, most players wouldn't make it past 95+ (only the most dedicated would, which is probably 1-2% of the core player base).

I know I'll be quitting shortly because of the very reasons I mentioned above; I love my current build (and have been playing since BETA) but I'm close to that wall, and once I hit it, the game will no longer be fun - instead it'll be tedious. And here's the thing; I like this build. I want to keep playing it. But I'm not ultra hardcore nor do I posses the reflexes much younger gamers have to survive the numerous random "better think qui... BAM. dead..." encounters.

If PoE wants better retention for this game, the death system needs to be redesigned; plain and simple.

Make death penalty like this.

First death of the day = -1%
Second death of the day = -5%
Every death after that in the same day = -10%

Most people die 1-2 times are usually not because of their character sucks but other issues like lag, crash, connection etc.

b4 2.0, most of my death is due to desync. After 2.0 I usually only die at opening laggy strongbox/client crash.