Maybe its time to "UN-Nerf" Soul Taker

Oh yeah for sure damage on FB are better, but going with the tanky bor/aegis/rainbow/laz, damage between nerfed ST and a facebreaker are pretty much even minus the fact you can use other skills with an axe. I can't remember the numbers exactly but they weren't too different.

Although running cyclone without a blood magic gem seems like a huge pain to me, but I just like things easy lol.

There are tons and tons of uniques that need buffs, soul taker really isn't one of them. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if they reverted it cause that'd make one of my builds that use it stronger as well. It's just the fact that the OP skewed facts and makes things seem worse/better than they actually are just to try to justify what he wants.

well, i have 75k dps with ST, but yeah, un-nerf it pls i want 90k dps;]

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Krayken wrote:

I'm pretty sure you can get more dps with facebreaker while maintaining around the same amount of survivability.

NO you can t because he is using a TAbula. He have the same defenses than a facebreaker fully geared. Try to give a FB build a tabula and get 50+ phy dam reduction....

Now give him a 6l with 1000 + armor and see how his defenses are eating FB defenses.

BTw, those 2 builds are still melee and melee sucks anyway :P.

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robertsup wrote:

I do wish you could you know, think for yourself since you have all the gear and extensive knowledge of this game according to you needing to balance it for GGG. Instead of asking for proof, lel.


Different items have different strengths and weaknesses, who knew?! One day maybe you won't just look at paper dps and use the exact same gear and skill tree with different builds to compare something, because ya know, Different skills and gear interact with each other differently.

I copied your Soultaker build with one of my free respecs to give it a detailed analysis here are some facts first:
About your setup:
I tried an elemental belt (34% ele dmg) vs megiords belt in your setup the dps is almost exactly the same 44.5k (elemental) vs 44.9k (physical) not even sure if elemental belt would give more life over 10% life but it depends on the total amount of life without hp nodes.

About rings/amulet : I tested it in your setup weapon elemental (t1 rolls) rings/amulet: 44.9 k(physical) vs (elemental) vs 44.6k elemental again almost exactly same dps with one major difference physical damage > elemental damage just because enemies especially bosses have resistances against elements but usually not resist against physical and by the way I didn’t had godly attack speed rings with flat phys + elemental t1 rolls so I don’t take this into equation as this would bump my facebreaker dps over the 70k mark.

About gloves: I give you that point I had no adequate gloves to compare but probably would have pushed my dps by another 3-4k up to 48k (in soultaker setup).
In case you wonder why so less life It’s a lvl 80 char used just for testing out your claims where I had to meet some stats requirements (15x int for herald of thunder) and the gear used for testing barely had any life but again you must have close to mirror rings I could imagine with those rings I probably reach 75k-80k dps on facebreakers but nvm.
For the record you did undercut my damage where the major part is physical (and not elemental) not just by 3-5k but by 12k dps.

So here comes the screenshot of your Setup:



Additional notes:
- I tested your ele dmg soultaker build on a quick dominus run just to see if my prediction was right and yeah took almost double the time due to damage being mostly elemental and not physical.
- I have trouble to see how you could profit from grace as you mentioned you use grace in your normal setup as you don’t got iron reflexes and only a single (24%)evasion node.

Back on my facebreaker I went down to your level of DPS by equipping aegis instead of great old one and by switching abyssus for BoR (legacy level 2 not the 200+ life) just to give the comparison an even more equal approach as I can imagine your dps swims below 30k in that setup. In case you wonder about life I got no life on jewellery as I specced this build just to see how far I can get with facebreakers from random jewellery out of my inventory plus 3 levels missing which would be 3X5% /4% lifenodes + fix amount of life per level up in the end this would be roughly the same amount of life that you have.
here are the screenshots of offense:



Here is a Picture of my defense as you can see I got 8% more block, equal amount of defense ( 11.5k) than you.



My conclusion:
On a very comparable level your build got a LOT less defense from the screens you posted (abyssus 40% more phys dmg) vs my BoR setup, we got almost exactly same DPS with the difference that my damage is to 60% physical while yours is roughly 90% elemental which is a lot less real damage dealt to enemies with resist. I have 8% more block, life isn’t a factor either as you would probably have 150-250 more life at the end than me. Probably one ring of yours or just your gloves cost more> than my whole build which is another big point.

I can see your hatred in the last words because you feel your beloved build is made bad it wasn’t my intention I bet you invested a lot to get those godly rings and gloves but face it your build which is using Soultaker is pretty much inferior in almost every aspect you gave me to compare. And if you still are in denial I suggest let’s do some duels to see what’s going on with your elemental damage vs physical damage.

At the end i have to give you the point that its not 3-4 times the damage more like 2-3 times the damage because pure physical>elemental


Edit:

Here is a picture for the lulz (all out dps facebreaker) without carcass 77.5k as im not willing to recolor my carcass for dps screen but probably would be 80k+ with it



about:

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kiernoz wrote:

well, i have 75k dps with ST, but yeah, un-nerf it pls i want 90k dps;]

pic or didnt happen.

i just wonder how fun is the experience of playing FB cyclone with that TINY range. with soul taker it at least has some range to speak of

FB + conc effect is literally toe-to-toe range

i have a FB char and couldnt stand cyclone even without Conc but if one loves dps so much.. who am i to judge

btw - make sure to sent a PM to GGG devs so they can see your reasoning. im pretty sure you'll convince them on the spot. not.

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sidtherat wrote:

i just wonder how fun is the experience of playing FB cyclone with that TINY range. with soul taker it at least has some range to speak of

FB + conc effect is literally toe-to-toe range

i have a FB char and couldnt stand cyclone even without Conc but if one loves dps so much.. who am i to judge

I find it not that small but also as i said im not using carcass jack which would improve the range and you know there is area nodes in templar area and cyclone q20% gives increased area of effect plus inc. AOE gem > conc effect for clearing trash and then switching out for conc effect against boss if even neccessary at those dps numbers but yeah everyone as he likes.

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sidtherat wrote:

btw - make sure to sent a PM to GGG devs so they can see your reasoning. im pretty sure you'll convince them on the spot. not.

who am I to say whats balance and not this whole thread is based on a suggestion than a demand

and i gave my suggestion some back that is all.

http://imgur.com/a/yoH8r

here you go.

first pic is with conc eff and life leech gem, my normal setup for atziri

second one is high dmg version with add fire dmg and atziri flask turn on

there is aditionally about 6-7k dmg from onslaught mod from Death Rush ring

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i made a little changes to test Shadows and Dust so its why 2k dps less then i wrote

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Deadpeng wrote:

I disagree. Soul taker is still the best unique for cyclone while cyclone offers much faster clear speed compared to any facebreaker build out there despite a much lower written DPS.

Kaom's heart is still quite useful if you know how to use it. The current standard market price of 5-7 exalt is really fair.

Lol. All the best facebreaker builds use cyclone. With a good pair, 80k+ cyclone dps is easily possible and have seen many people get it. Just go look in the forums, you'll find some with even 100k. The clear speed is pretty insane as well. When you have 100k cyclone, the overkill from HoA is huge and you can just go through a pack once, with HoA burning everything else down.

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lolozori wrote:

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Krayken wrote:

I'm pretty sure you can get more dps with facebreaker while maintaining around the same amount of survivability.

NO you can t because he is using a TAbula. He have the same defenses than a facebreaker fully geared. Try to give a FB build a tabula and get 50+ phy dam reduction....

Now give him a 6l with 1000 + armor and see how his defenses are eating FB defenses.

BTw, those 2 builds are still melee and melee sucks anyway :P.

No. He used the tabula rasa only for the dps screenshot. He used an actual armor for the defensive screenshot.