Maybe its time to "UN-Nerf" Soul Taker
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point is that you are making an outrageous claim based on slapping an item A onto a build centered around item B and compare the tooltip dps
this is absurd 'reasoning' and it proves nothing so i come and help you with another analogy - compare the FB build dps after equipping a bow - it makes just the same amount of 'sense' and if anyone thinks that ~300pdps 1.8aps axe removing all mana management requires another buff.. well.. i doubted ggg balance in the past but im sure it is not happening. ever. |
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" another case of reading for the win. Read my fourth point then we can dicsuss (not about bows). " see point third) about mana being no problem and second) dps being no problem. edit: maybe i will need a little further explanation here so that you will understand too. Soultaker was used because of the mana requirement of high cost skills like cyclone, for most of the other skills its no problem leaving ~10% mana with 1-2% mana leech anyway. Those mana intensive skills need a closer look for a better comparision and thats what i did i took a RT build using a shield and compared those two. Maybe you can point out to me where exactly my comparison is lacking? Last edited by zzang#1847 on Jan 8, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
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" You still proved my point, no, a weapon build should not use a tree or same gears optimized for facebreakers, that's completely retarded and a horrible comparison. Since, you know, you're mainly about all dat dps, I put on my dps gears with soultaker with a tree kind of similar but with guess what, axe nodes and weapon elemental nodes and on gear. 45k dps, which could be raised by using great old ones ward (which I don't have) to 50k+ cyclone. Only difference is soultakers gear have tons of possibilities. Facebreakers relies soley on uniques to get so good which pigeonholes it. So yes, gear and skill tree can't be compared fairly in any way, shape or form if they're optimized for different things. Anyone with half a brain knows that. With correct build/gears it does very well. What you're saying is that, Facebreakers are very very good for what they cost (they are and always have been) and that soultakers are overpriced for what they can do (debatable), which they are overpriced a bit imo but that doesn't mean they, "suck". I agree with some people that they need to be dropped down tier levels for obtaining them, but rebuffing them isn't a solution at all because they're easily still viable. Logic for the win guys. |
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" i like the logic for the win especially in this one, im curious did you use a tree that has atleast 15 points left and gets atleast 41% block with a shield while having the same amount %life from skill tree ^ if thats so please post skilltree and I will try that myself. |
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I'll post the tree later today.
But why would I need the same % hp from the tree? I have an extra glove slot that you can't use for hp. I get the same amount of hp for less hp on tree. You don't compare trees of different builds, you compare the end results. You don't build your gear around your tree, you build your tree around your gear. Unless of course you have no trouble getting anything in the game in which case most people cant. Last edited by robertsup#3341 on Jan 8, 2015, 11:19:40 AM
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of course if you got like 50% life from tree and went full out dps then it would matter but if you have like 155% than i would say its comparable (-10% life very generous for the glove slot)
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It's 12% less life. Doesn't matter what the % is, like I said earlier, your actual hp is at the end of all that which they are similar. When I get home I can even show a screenshot.
Though, the only thing you're actually looking at is the damage of the two. With equal defensive stats. I could drop my defenses down to your level and have 50k dps with a 127% soul taker (less than you but this isn't even a legacy st). Can face breakers get as tanky as me with the same dps? I'll answer that for you because I've tried and you can't. Can't trade your amulet for a 4% block laz without losing what, over 10k dps, same with your shield and belt and especially helm. Now you want st to be un-nerfed so I can have the same dps or more but have countless more options than that very same niche build? Cost shouldn't be a determining factor of how well an item can be used, if you wanted that. Face breakers should be nerfed then since they are so cheap for all that damage they can do, right? |
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^
Edit: still waiting for the guy to post me his "50k cyclone Soultaker (non legacy)" which have to get "get down to my level of defense". i hope this wasnt made up just to make a point in forums. As i got all the items myself i can easily test it if its true what you claim. all you need to do is to post the skilltree (btw got grace running instead of wrath/anger) but im curious to see those defense too. Last edited by zzang#1847 on Jan 8, 2015, 4:38:25 PM
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" Sorry to reply so late masta, I was out working, can't be on forums 24/7 like some people. Without an offensive shield with a level 15 cyclone and a tabula rasa equipped. You don't use the same gem set up as facebreakers obviously because, you can't benefit from weapon elemental damage like, you know, weapons can? Also, you don't even wear weapon elemental rings/belt, with attack speed and flat rolled physical gloves while switching out your facebreakers to "compare", now do you? I can use grace too if you want, though if we compare our dps with anger/wrath, it's going to be HEAVILY HEAVILY in my favor from elemental nodes and WED on pieces of gear while having more attack speed than unarmed. In the image im 92 but have only taken more hp/defesive nodes, not going to regret or chrome anything because all you have to do is remove a few defensive nodes and some hp nodes, which is on par with the build you links hp. Same amount of damage nodes as in the tree I linked though.  Defense, Had to switch out tabula for my 6l carcass so I wouldn't have to recolor just to show you how it's done.  https://www.poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgQAmy29gZkrFey5HYTZypBlTb02R37Bgi_MBS1673TthO9i7GBLvqcs6crTGbRl8HVOpo3iLAkz0TYVINi9NZK18m6qSsg_JypN_gpN4_6PxPY8Lcautz582fcycqkTTCb4F-FOMsGj-OvqGGebrj534_dNJJtBdBQg7w5QR-RRXz89_IzP9khYY3k5fuIaPunV8wb7qgY5JIs9D1Fgd-V8u1figpvtIKIA4XMEs_Af73yf38Bm_lQNzStQHM4aOJBVJy_sOItPKCqXeTGeple2ijrh I do wish you could you know, think for yourself since you have all the gear and extensive knowledge of this game according to you needing to balance it for GGG. Instead of asking for proof, lel. Different items have different strengths and weaknesses, who knew?! One day maybe you won't just look at paper dps and use the exact same gear and skill tree with different builds to compare something, because ya know, Different skills and gear interact with each other differently. |
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" I'm pretty sure you can get more dps with facebreaker while maintaining around the same amount of survivability. I have a FB toon with 20k cyclone, 75% block, 56% spell block, 5.1k life, close to 700 ES (hes using aegis aurora), 13k armor and resists are 76 80 75. I could easily switch my BOR for an Abyssus, my Stone for a flat phys amulet and get that flat phys unique shield. Then i'd drop life leech gem (because i'd get leech from my amulet) to use conc effect (which by the way is terrible with cyclone unless im missing something). I would go from 48-80 base flat phys to 91-156. That alone would nearly double my dps. I would get additional dps from 20-20 melee phys and faster attacks gems (compared to what BOR offers) and then the more multiplier from conc effect. I could also drop the ES passives (4 nodes) and Iron Reflexes (5 other nodes) for 9 more melee dps nodes (quick look on the tree would give me 72% melee phys dps + 5% attack speed for 7 passives alone) and drop tempest shield (lowering my block to 52%) to be able to use mana leech instead of blood magic gem for an additional support gem (probably melee phys on full life). Pretty sure i'd reach over 80k dps that way. That said i agree with your point that the test that the thread starter did was biased but i do think that Soul Taker should be un-nerfed. Last edited by Krayken#1299 on Jan 8, 2015, 10:44:43 PM
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