Melee is the worst bullshit ever in poe

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Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

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pneuma wrote:

The block thing technically hurt everyone -- it wasn't a targeted nerf.

It certainly feels targeted :(
...
75/75 Block does not even begin to approach the same level of damage avoidance that a build can enjoy by virtue of being offscreen.

This is a bigger problem, as I'm sure you're aware. If it takes heaven and earth to come close to matching up with the defense of "being a few units farther away", there is little hope without some big sweeping defensive changes that don't match the current system.

Since there is no way, currently, to imply that "this build gets close to mobs by choice", there is no way to give that more defenses without also giving ranged more defenses. We can't just say "uses a melee weapon" because that would benefit ST/LS. We can't just say "has point blank" because that benefits point blank traps. And so on.

At the very least, if GGG could stop adding things that murder the fuck out of melee while leaving ranged untouched (several bloodlines, tormented martyr), that would be a good start.

As far as I can tell, the only things in the game that punish ranged more than melee are Proximity Shield and Far Shot. The latter isn't even that punishing to ranged, since the only things that use it can themselves be outranged while, in melee, it's possible to be stuck between two Far Shot enemies and never be in a position where one or the other can't hit you.

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pneuma wrote:

At the very least, if GGG could stop adding things that murder the fuck out of melee while leaving ranged untouched (several bloodlines, tormented martyr), that would be a good start.

This.

The problem only gets compounded almost every single fucking patch. It just doesn't make sense for GGG to add content like this. Melee are already plagued by problems and GGG just want to keep adding to the pile? Why? Please, why? This game seems to scream at you to give up and played something ranged at every opportunity.
I'd like to see patches introduce more reasons to play a melee spec, not less....... :/

I once got hit by a volatile blood for over 8k hp (during level 99). I survived by the skin of my teeth as a party member had luckily just activated a Vaal Discipline. Volatile damage cannot be countered in any way by melee builds. The only way to manage it is to be able to tank it, or not get hit by it at all. And that is just one example......

Being realistic, I know that I can't have my cake and eat it too. The fundamental and mechanical disparity between melee and ranged is almost impossible to negotiate.
Let's imagine, for a moment, everything that hard-countered melee was removed from the game. Ranged would still be better...... :_( Heartbreaking.
I'm not asking for melee to be outright better, or for melee to be afk-easy-mode. What I would (selfishly) love to see is a set of challenge leagues dominated by melee builds for a change (see below) as most everything else seems to have had its turn. (Would still prefer balance, not just the wind blowing in a different direction)

One of POE's core selling points is build diversity is it not? I think there needs to be a development manifesto post about this ASAP. How satisfied/dissatisfied are GGG with the current state of Melee builds (in a vacuum), and Melee vs Caster, Caster Vs Ranged etc? Do considerations toward PvP impact the direction of PvE?

I dont know if these issues can be resolved purely numerically, or if the solutions are more abstract, but the nerf to block did not, in any way, improve the situation for melee's competitiveness.

I look at the 1.3.0 changes to block and the South-West region of the tree and see nothing that improves the situation for builds that rely on that region.

Furthermore, the changes to %HP utterly baffle me, a perfectly divined rare HP chest is completely outclassed by a Belly of the Beast (>400 HP better) currently. This disparity is strong enough to trivialise any differences in armour/evasion/resists a rare chest might offer instead.
Aside from that one unique basically being the "Best-in-Slot" HP chest now, less %HP means less scaling from flat life on gear. This only served to buff unique-centric builds. With less pressure or incentive to get high flat life on as many slots as possible, players can now feasibly equip uniques in their place (there is ~40hp difference for me when I equip a +80hp shield vs a +10%hp rathpith globe). This is unacceptable.
Why in fucks name would GGG want to promote uniques in place of high-end rare items?

LEGACY KAOM'S HEART

The whole point of that item going legacy was so that GGG did not have to continue to balance around it. Seems like that failed.


Fun Fact:
4.21% are Duelists inside the top 15k in Torment League (631).
3.30% are Duelists inside the top 15k in Bloodlines League (495).

I agree with OP.
I have a legacy facebreaker in Standard (983) and tried to play it.
It does work and deal high damage, but it just feels... clunky.
Like, imagine getting into an older car at -20°C outside, and trying to get into reverse. That's how melee feels in PoE.
Also, desync is unbearable as melee, compared to AOE casters.

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Fun Fact:
4.21% are Duelists inside the top 15k in Torment League (631).
3.30% are Duelists inside the top 15k in Bloodlines League (495).

better than I expected it to be

Duelist start is - still, after last minute 'fixes' - garbage and the whole idea of class that does not take RT but also is not Crit is a stupid one. this forces Duelist to a) go mara/templar start (and both have better starts) or b) go ranger/shadow start (and again - both have better starts). so why bother at all?

i play 4 respec'ed duelists right now and both manage fine due to legacy gear and cheeze builds (you cannot go wrong with soultaker) but i do not expect to start Duelist char in the forseeable future as there is just no point

That s not even a duelist only problem, the whole south part of tree sucks.

Marauders also have big trouble getting defenses from spell damages . Armor the thing that should be marauder natural defenses is so bad, I prefer using AA instead even if I only have 200 mana reserved left...

If only they added better defense mechanism like gain 1% chance to dodge spells/1000 armors or +1% to all block for each monsters around you with a cap max at max 20% gainned bonus.

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StormHunter wrote:

less survavability, less damage, more desync compared to bow/spectral throw/casters and what does ggg do, they nerf it even further, 0/10 for balance in poe

I logged in after the last patch and remade my cyclone mirror-sword duelist. It went down from 65k damage to 45k. Life roughly stayed at the same low level (~4300).

Why do I struggle from these kind of things while the dagger + shav guys probably still are 500-600k dps at 8000 energy shield (down from 700k)? Spectral throwers with mirror-dagger instead of mirror-sword probably do still 150k+ dps all over the screen?

Am I supposed to play a shadow style of charackter with daggers to have a decent competitive melee? Am I forced to go energy shield to be competitive? Did I have to reduce my damage even further to get half-way acceptible life numbers which are 5500-6000? Why did I collect mirror and close to mirror level life-gear on all slots when it is in the end with perfect gear on all slots not even half as good as the same gear for ES and dagger instead?


The whole concept of PoE of favouring ranged+aoe as much over melee and then put the best melee option in the area where all the ranged+aoe is (between witch and ranger) doesn't get in my head.

The templar physical option has been taken away too. My lvl 98 templar has no choice but going for elemental now. I haven't even tried to build it yet as I know the result will be even more disappointing than the duelist especially when comparing it to the all-in-one dagger/shadow-style charackters with high survivability with aoe damage higher than my single target damage and so on.

Nothing more to say. Game is dead for me.

lol StormHunta, give these people some rest

Melee (and i mean all melee, 2h especially) need a consistent way to mitigate elemental damage.

I hit 86 level in torment with a 2H templar and physical damage is just a big joke compared to it.

Flasks are not really a permanent solution.

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LSN wrote:

I logged in after the last patch and remade my cyclone mirror-sword duelist. It went down from 65k damage to 45k. Life roughly stayed at the same low level (~4300).

Why do I struggle from these kind of things while the dagger + shav guys probably still are 500-600k dps at 8000 energy shield (down from 700k)? Spectral throwers with mirror-dagger instead of mirror-sword probably do still 150k+ dps all over the screen?

Your numbers going down is probably due to a non-optimized tree, the first try in a new tree is never really perfect.
(I've respecced a Marauder to 30k Reave DpS with a 300 DpS sword and have invested in 75/50 block with nowhere near perfect gear, so you must be doing something wrong).*

Daggers are still better, yes. Crit is better than anything else, because crit is another more damage multiplier.

However you get something in return, something that the crit dagger dude doesn't have.
In my case: max block.
And 45k DpS is enough to clear most content with ease.

*: Just saw you're using Cyclone. Well, Cyclone got changed. Overall tooltip DpS went down (but I have no idea why you would even look at the tooltip with this skill).

i know the solution for my previous melee templar, i really do.

I specced into flameblast! yay he rocks the shit again.