Desync is not a feature, and shouldn't be treated as one. It's completely unacceptable.

Couldn't ggg force more of the engine onto client side though and have client side trump server side in cases of desynch regarding player and monster position and player/monster attack animations though? that shouldn't require rebuilding the wheel as far as I know.

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czartaylor wrote:

Couldn't ggg force more of the engine onto client side though and have client side trump server side in cases of desynch regarding player and monster position and player/monster attack animations though? that shouldn't require rebuilding the wheel as far as I know.

It's a good plan, but it opens up a couple of worm cans.

By forcing more of the server functions onto the client, it allows the possibility of the client sending erroneous info to the server. This allows things like duping and other hacks to potentially become easier to do.

It also means that server side info becomes easier to track, trace and emulate - which could allow hacked servers to be developed with all of the negative elements that entails.

It's a hard problem to solve - you're stuck between making a better player experience while possibly killing the game to hacks and emulated servers, or having a slightly worse experience but maintaining the security of the game and it's longevity.

don't let the door hit you on the way out :)

Inoka is right.
They won't fix desync and have decided it's not worth it.
That's only correct in the literal sense, however.

They won't fix desync, because they can't with the existing model of delegating everything to the server while at the same time keeping the mechanics that seem to be unique to this game, i.e. Evasion, manual dodging of attacks and possibly some others.
Since these mechanics are very important to the devs, they kinda decided it's not worth it fixing them, since this would mean parting with something they specifically wanted in this game.
So, while desync is not and should not be treated as a feature, it is definitely inherent to the code - but it's not really a bug, either.

Personally, I don't suffer from desync much. I do desync, no denying that, but I don't think I've ever died to it. I don't build or play around desync. Perhaps my natural playing style (whatever that is) makes me avoid issues with desync.
A thing I'd like to know, though, is how many cases of desync there really are. I often think that people attribute lag issues to desync. Boxes were mentioned. Boxes usually do not desync you, but they do cause lag (and I think this could be fixed - but maybe I'm wrong, IANAP).

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nait2k4 wrote:

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czartaylor wrote:

Couldn't ggg force more of the engine onto client side though and have client side trump server side in cases of desynch regarding player and monster position and player/monster attack animations though? that shouldn't require rebuilding the wheel as far as I know.

It's a good plan, but it opens up a couple of worm cans.

By forcing more of the server functions onto the client, it allows the possibility of the client sending erroneous info to the server. This allows things like duping and other hacks to potentially become easier to do.

It also means that server side info becomes easier to track, trace and emulate - which could allow hacked servers to be developed with all of the negative elements that entails.

It's a hard problem to solve - you're stuck between making a better player experience while possibly killing the game to hacks and emulated servers, or having a slightly worse experience but maintaining the security of the game and it's longevity.

that is not entirely accurate. Once can already look at the client to figure how things are done and to send false info to the server. Also, given all of the info you can gleam from available sources, I imagine one could create a false server like the ones that have or do exist for wow.

It's simply the fact that the server never trusts the client data that stops anyone from doing this. They could try, but the server will just throw it out anyway, so why bother - you would just be creating a hack client that is always desynced.

as for the hacked private servers, I think the lack of this is due to the comparatively smaller player base who is also much more supportive and in admiration of the developer. Wow, for example, was much more popular and it's not like a few dozen private servers ever really threatened the cash cow. the same sort of pov keeps a certain population of people torrenting popular music, games and movies.


I actually wonder if there is one data point they could trust with out having to worry about it too much. Like player location. I know hits not registering and other things can be quite the bitch, but every single desync death I have suffered has been from thinking I got out of danger only to somehow still be taking damage and then I am zoned right back into danger upon resync. Probably not worth typing that as, how often does desync kill in some other fashion? lol of course, trusting the client on even only this could be a really big deal, in a bad way. I know people hate things like this but they could always have something running in the background on the client that checks for modified clients or something like that.

OTOH, what about going full-on Steam? Doesn't steam's install methods and steamworks system prevent a hacked client?

And on yet another hand, I get the feeling everything I just typed has already been typed a hundred times already. Oh well, useless reply is useless.

They refuse to go the "trust the client" model which would totally eliminate the desynchronization in this game, because that would mean modifications in the clients aka cheating, hacking...

From my perspective... cheating ? so what ? Still better than playing with desynch ! Cheaters and hackers wont affect me at all because I play solo all the time. This is why I loved the good old single player games like Titan Quest, Nox, and D2 SP... nothing was multiplayer related, nothing was an issue. I played my own game. If someone wanted to cheat so be it, I decide to not.

TL;DR : Only way to fix desynch is to switch to the "trust the client model". Trust the client model allows chating and modifications. Desynch wont be fixed because people would cheat. GGG said this officially multiple times, so why create new threads ? Yes it is their fault and they know it but we have to live with it or stop playing. Desynch wont be fixed EVER. End of story.

And don't think that I am on GGG's side on this one, hell no ! because a lot of my friends quit because of this. I am just stating the sad facts here because I see that a lot of people still dont get it.

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xxxmarok84xxx wrote:

Cheaters and hackers wont affect me at all because I play solo all the time.

Oh so it's fine since it doesn't affect you.

EDIT: And I'm assuming you don't trade either. Either that or you're not smart enough to realize how the economy would be affected by things like duping.

but but muh economuh!


sorry, couldn't help being an ass - merry xmas to all!

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elitedesolator wrote:

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xxxmarok84xxx wrote:

Cheaters and hackers wont affect me at all because I play solo all the time.

Oh so it's fine since it doesn't affect you.

EDIT: And I'm assuming you don't trade either. Either that or you're not smart enough to realize how the economy would be affected by things like duping.

Nop, dont really care about the economy to be honest and trading ? Very very rarely.
As I said, I play the game in old fashion as I played ARPG's back in the days = SP mode.

The game GGG wants to make + Physics = Desync

There are ways of limiting the extent of desync but none that can completely remove it unless GGG's vision of the game is compromised. I doubt they'll want to change anything related to that. I am hoping they won't at least, desync is in my opinion the lesser evil in this case.