How is GGG going to stop D2JSP and similar scum?

Yes. Because that's what always happens. People spend real money on great items that they don't know are cursed, and then they give them away to completely innocent people out of the goodness of their hearts. It takes fifteen seconds to see if the item was actually traded or not, but it's laughably doubtful. Who the hell is going to buy an item and go "Oh boy, I bet I can use this in a legitimate in-game trade for something else?"

GGG, I don't expect that you'll implement my item-cursing idea exactly as I've described it, but as evidence of its efficacy, I offer the desperation of an actual real-money trader.

Shorter Slicer: "Since GGG is omniscient, there will be no false positives nor will anyone find a way to circumvent or abuse this."


I've broken your system, btw: I traded three worthless blues in exchange for that 6-linked rare. Now try getting me without also nuking the accounts of new users who don't yet understand current item values.

Better yet, I get a real money item and just for laughs I give it to you. It's the ultimate playerkill.


There are people out there who want to sell items. There are people out there who want to troll. Neither group are composed entirely of morons.

"

caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaps wrote:

Shorter Slicer: "Since GGG is omniscient, there will be no false positives nor will anyone find a way to circumvent or abuse this."


I've broken your system, btw: I traded three worthless blues in exchange for that 6-linked rare. Now try getting me without also nuking the accounts of new users who don't yet understand current item values.

Better yet, I get a real money item and just for laughs I give it to you. It's the ultimate playerkill.


There are people out there who want to sell items. There are people out there who want to troll. Neither group are composed entirely of morons.

You and your name are very annoying.

"

Slicer wrote:

Yes. Because that's what always happens. People spend real money on great items that they don't know are cursed, and then they give them away to completely innocent people out of the goodness of their hearts. It takes fifteen seconds to see if the item was actually traded or not, but it's laughably doubtful. Who the hell is going to buy an item and go "Oh boy, I bet I can use this in a legitimate in-game trade for something else?"

1. They can give it away to get someone else banned.
2. They can and will trade it for ingame currency if there is a profit to be made, as ingame currency can be converted into cash (or offsite currency) again.
3. Again, what about dummy trades? Enforced GGG price checks on any item?

First, to get this over with, I have used D2JSP in the past. And for most people using it, it just is a way of trading. I've never known anyone actually paying money for fg. Most people just sell items they don't need for a proper amount of change, and use D2JSP for their large audience and actually having a reliable currency.
I can understand there is a lot of hate for D2JSP going on, and that the possibility of having people buy items for real money is not a pleasant thought to have (hello there, D3), but it is going to happen in ways.

"

DragoonWraith wrote:

What really needs to happen is for someone (probably not GGG, since they're a small company) to just sue D2JSP out of existence. They like to pretend they're legal, but they're not, and demonstrating damages in court would be trivial. Blizzard just hasn't bothered because the damages haven't been sufficient to justify the legal costs. Which will probably remain true, but maybe it won't if they're directly taking away from Blizzard's cut on D3.

Do you really think anyone would use D2JSP for D3 with the RMAH available, that wants to give real money? No. But people just wanting to trade stuff using an outward currency might consider it. But if you're going to reason this way, I can't understand your hate. And it won't scratch Blizz at all. 95% of the people playing D3 are going to be casuals.
You were very content on the fact that D2JSP completely destroys a games economic system and the possible fun you ever could have with this game, but Blizzard/Activision, a humongeous company didn't bother? Well, that's funny. If they can't, how is someone ever going to do this and profit from it? Maybe you just overstate the damage done from jsp? Also I wonder if you are a lawyer and you have special insights on how such trading websites are illegal. It was my impression that internet law is quite complicated and in most cases, non existant. Even if the servers are actually in the US, for that matter.

"

DragoonWraith wrote:

Anyway, if nothing else, as Slicer says: things can be done. Didn't RuneQuest implement some thing where items can only be traded with a reasonable range of equality, so that selling (i.e. an out-of-game item for an in-game item) became impossible? Fairly certain it did.

Like dust7 already said, there would be a big amount of monitoring ingame currency rates involved, but this might even be possible in ways. But you will end up stripping players of their freedom. You can't give away of gift anything to a new player. You can't go over or under price, if you need something really fast or because you want to make big profits. You will end up screwing up the trading system more than D2JSP ever will, that's my personal subjective predicition.
And this still can be exploited, you would just have to trade back and forth going underprice, you would have to juggle a bit with the currency items, but with the bad, heavy jsp traders that should be no issue. Also you would have to make sure items are bound on pickup and can not be thrown to the ground. And with all this done, I still can give fg to someone to farm or simply play with my account when I'm not around, and invest my dear RM (or not).

"

Slicer wrote:

All the stuff he said over the last few pages

Simply, how are you going to prove (or even know) that an item was bought and not gifted? There will be a lot of trading going on, and to monitor and draw lines where RM might be involved or not is almost impossible. I got half of my equipment in D2 from friends or players that wanted to quit the game. Am I a possible criminal now? Remember all the give away games (that is, if you actually played the game you are ranting about).
What is considered a trade anyway? You can actually throw items on the ground and someone will pick it up. People chat outside of the ingame chat. Skype and Teamspeak for actually talking to people, where are you points there?
Also, if you're going to be an asshole, you can simply use your "solution" to troll and/or destroy other peoples accounts by knowingly trading/giving your RM items to them. This will happen with your way. By now I have met at least 2 or 3 people on this game that I would happily toss out of the game with a fake account, maybe even my real one if I'm in a bad mood.
Your big brother monitoring system also will be quite impossible to manage by "one or two GMs", and the moral implications of that are quite disturbing. I suggest to read 1984 or Brave New World. GGG actually has to worry about their customers and not scareing away their potential money. A normal person actually wouldn't want other people to read their chat logs. You already said that botting and duping were the biggest issues on D2, why are you hating on jsp so much?

^^^
Truth

Were there any problems with forum gold in World of Warcraft economy?

Good ingame currency/gold system without stupid limits (like in Diablo 2) and auction house. Is there anything better?

"

Alejajca wrote:

Were there any problems with forum gold in World of Warcraft economy?

Good ingame currency/gold system without stupid limits (like in Diablo 2) and auction house. Is there anything better?

Forum Gold does not affect WoW by a huge amount for the single reason that almost all good items are bound on pickup. Ingame gold is traded for forum gold for sure.

"

dust7 wrote:

The gullibility regarding GGG's power to stalk every action of every player, including in other forums, including private messages and the hilariousness of assumptions like that sites as jsp could be sued successfully (for what, exactly?) has reached a level that it is not even worth to comment on them in detail.

this is all that needed to be said. anybody familiar with how sites like jsp actually work could tell you there's nothing GGG can do to stop them. the best they can do is try to hinder their online advertising, which will have undesirable side-effects.

any extra effort to "police" this kind of thing with anything but automated or scripted events will stop the instant GGG realizes they're putting in a ton of effort and not really stopping anything in the end anyways. at best, they'll ban some obvious dupers and sellers, who'll by that point have made a fortune and be pretty motivated to continue to do so, except this time do a better job of not getting caught.

fighting virtual item sellers with company resources is a waste of company resources. simply put, the sellers have 24hrs/day 7days/wk to ply their trade, and the best GGG can hope for is to slow them down a little. and make no mistake, they WILL be here; they're already drooling at the potential that orb-selling provides, i assure you.

funny stories here :D
just a few points in bad english from my side..

- tracking this jsp or rm traders will coast to much time and efford for this small company. there will be no time and money to hire GM's, sparetime sherlocks or an ingame stasi. blizzard, a billion dollar company can't do much against gold farmers from china or loot sellers. but this indie developer with very limited recources should? don't be so naiv please.

- sueing lootsellers in the US or china? u have an idea how much this will coast u? with very little chance to win. the risk is to high. if its so easy blizzard and others would have done it. (they propably employ more ppl in their legal department then the whole GGG team) there's no chance to stop this and thats exactly why blizzard implemented this rmah so they can profit from it at least. ( i dont know exactly but i guess they take some % of the traded money)

- somebody mentioned selling orbs (or pay2win items) in the ingame shop..
the company that developes eve online almost went down because they planned this. (of cource the assured it will never happen before. just like GGG) they lost countless acounts and had to do a hard walk to canossa, takeing all back after that.
selling stuff like this in the ingame shop will kill this game fast.