Legal Vs. Ethical in HC

Good post, hope GGG reads it.

There are some issues not covered, but you have mentioned several things which take out the fun of competing.

You know, I never thought of this game as being competitive in any meaningful way. I mean, sure, there's the ladder and points and all that, but it never felt like actual competition.

CS is competitive. Dota is competitive. Fighting games are competitive.

Mob grinding? Really? That's where people get their kick from?

I could understand using a hack/exploit/gray area solution when quality of life is involved. You do mind numbingly boring Piety runs, you want to save time, you zoom hack. Probably not legal, but as someone who spend countless hours AFK farming lvl 67 instances, I get that people would want a short cut through that particular wasteland of time and sanity.

Doing that and other things to gain an "advantage"? Who are you beating? At what?

Dunno, maybe I'm just weird.

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donm3 wrote:

If it was a single-player game it wouldn't matter, but in a competitive game those advantages are difficult to overcome.

I don't see any competition. Etup hit 100 like 2 weeks ago and it's still a PvE based game after all. Now I'm not talking about MapHack in races.

I wasn't trying to suggest that GGG tighten the noose further on those who cheat because cheating cannot be eliminated totally. It was more a suggestion to players to consider what it means "to win." Clearly many players lack a strong moral compass in that regard.

Indeed there are other problems I didn't bring up. Snapshotting was another huge issue streamers were happy to exploit. Sure GGG wasn't banning people for doing it, but in the dev post where they said they were going to remove the ability to snap shot they used the word "abuse" 3 times to describe the practice. Once again it's a legal vs ethical question and many players are willing to do ANYTHING as long as it doesn't get them banned.

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Swagtrain wrote:

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donm3 wrote:

Clearly many players lack a strong moral video game sandbox ARPG compass in that regard.

So no one gets confused.

Thank you so much. I thought this entire time we were talking about morality of the school systems.


On topic though, the problem is the game is not conscience. It has no will. There is no right and wrong according to the game. Therefore, it can not reward or punish based on morality.

In the end, this means ethics are determined by GGG (aka legality). If GGG says something is legal, then it is by default good ethically as well.

I happen to disagree with some of the ethics GGG has set for the game. Unfortunately, that is 100% my problem. Ironically, it actually becomes wrong for me to convince other people to copy my ethics.

So sorry donm3. Even though I share a lot of the ethics you do, we are actually in the wrong.

:)

*edited because i used words incorrectly*

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Part of the no pay to win policy also means they need to ALLOW multiclienting because that's how you legally get around the stash tab advantage conferred by stash tab purchases: you use other accounts as mules.

Actually, they could have gotten around this with 'right of access stashes'.

The guild stash (although not ideal) performs this function.

It will be interesting to see how the new trade system is implemented with the trade stash thing. Because they could actually implement 'right of access' as a feature and for all intents and purposes, outlaw any form of multi-client. Although the actual policing of such, I wouldn't expect.

For this I have a suggestion ...

You could do like in D&D. Make a reputation/stance/whatever system, where the players can give each other ethical ratings, like:

1. Player: "i choose to be chaotic evil" click ...
2. Player: "hmmm.. I just played with him and he certainly seems like that" clicks on chaotic evil ...
3. Player: "i actually think he's kinda neutral" clicks on neutral ...
4. Player sees the overall rating calculated by the game, based on the individual ratings of each player and takes a stance towards the 1. Player ...

This would further the roleplaying element in this game, as well as give players an idea about how they can behave around the individual players. It's a free2play game afterall, making it easy for scammers and the like. This system would also lift some of the pressure from support, by making players able to choose based on others prior experience, without downright punishing players ...

Peace,

-Boem-

So some people wants to play POE with training wheels attached, such as hacks and "unethical" tools and trix.
Doesn't that makes you feel so much better knowing you are grown up and don't want/need training wheels to play?

Sure makes me feel better anyways.

great Rant, important Topic!

As a Community we should try to be clear against Stuff like Hacks, Logout-Macros ... especially in HC. But it's hard, in the End most People just look at their own Fun/Success & do not think about the longterm Issues or Moral/Ethics.

Greetings,