Path of Exile 1 Gameplay Help and Discussion - Daggers.. #1 in dps... #1 in crit... #1 in passive tree... am I missing something? - Forum

" MullaXul wrote: I like how everyone focuses on the obvious imbalance of crit >>>>>>>> non crit in PvM. Then argues doing 2x damage isn't enough. 2x damage is.......2x fucking damage. If you stack crit chance high enough (which is easy as hell as a dagger) you're critical-ling basically every single hit for......2x damage. Now on to the real issue, because really who gives a crap about PvM. You don't need 400-1000% multipliers in PvP. How is a player expected to live that much damage? Even if they have a shield and are RNGing acrobatics/phase acrobatics and evade. Its asinine and becomes increasingly more asinine when you're a 2h'r who just eats damage for free. A 2h'r in a game where 2h'rs are ass. Where your only defense is your hp pool yet criticals can still 1hit you even with 11k+ hp. Which realistically isn't even easy to come by anymore. Legacy Kaom's users are usually sitting around 7-9k hp now a days and that's in really expensive gear. You'd be better off having 5-6k hp using a 6link and a 1h/shield set up and actually blocking incoming damage. Not to mention how much easier it is to get resist,crit chance/multiplier,attack speed and those 2x 3links are pretty handy. I'm contemplating going bow or 1h/shield myself. Now a days if you're taking RT, you're doing nothing but gimping yourself. The whole 2h melee concept is flipped on it's head in this game. In Diablo2 2h melee was straight ass too but it wasn't this bad. Dual wielding 2x 1h'ers was stupidly the best Barbarian set up you could do. At least 2h'rs actually out ranged 1h weapon types, hp pools actually equaled a legitimate form of defense in a game where armor was just a suggestion and no one ever payed attention to it. How did it work out that way? Well I dunno...maybe because the game didn't exceed 150% damage on a critical. You received predictable yet high damage and dealt it back. It wasn't 1hit ko's, we knew what the PvP formula was, we had items to properly mitigate stuff that would otherwise be insanely powerful i.e 20 cold mastery Blizzard in Hell mode which could 1 shot you if you didn't stack resistance. There's just too many things that have been implemented into this game that make it harder then hell to balance. Damage has already been done and its irreversible. Fire,cold,light penetration gems and how they work, critical multiplier, lack of "good" ways to prevent shock,chill and freeze. Letting daggers use the block reduction gem. The way armor works against big damage. CI + Melee damage on full ....just to name a few. I like to PvM as much as the next guy but really that's where its the least unbalanced. The problem is PVP is on the bottom of GGGs priority, atm I just happy they fixed guardians and conversion traps and added FFA ranking per arena instance. I also agree that 900 - 1000 crit multipliers are not realistic in PVP, imo the best option would be to make base crit multiplier be 100% in PVP so the % stacking from gem, tree and items is basically additive. This should gimp everyone multiplier 1.5 times. You might say this is nothing, but a drastic change, such as cutting it by 4-5 times (800-1000 => 200) will literally destroy all crit builds. If the 1.5 times reduction turns out to still be op than reduce it more. On another note, to be able to balance PVP, we really need formulas for dmg calculation for each skill - since I think all PVPers can agree different skills have different PVP dmg formulas. For instance flickers dmg is reduced at least 8-10 times in PVP, while whirling blades/cyclone a lot less (perhaps 2-3 times at the most). As far as I noticed the less % of base dmg a skill deals the less it is reduced in PVP. These formulas really need to be let in the public for build planing and debate, if we want any kind of serious PVP. Furthermore, while I understand your resentment for being one shoot with flickers even tho u have 10k hp, u have to acknowledge that u also 2-3 hit most people with cyclone. This should also be reduced by quite a bit if u really want a fair/relatively balanced PVP. I items shop: 364086 ign: [ICU]missuse if you like to HLD, add me inactive in game atm, PM me if you need something. Last edited by missuse#0603 on Sep 4, 2014, 5:04:26 AM	Posted by missuse#0603 on Sep 4, 2014, 5:03:03 AM Quote this Post
please dont nerf daggers. whats with all this nerfing??? instead make weapon passives have more impact daggers: crit chance + crit damage \| special: poison on crit sword: accuracy + bleed effects \| special: stacking bleed damage or increased damage against bleeding targets axe: raw damage + crit damage \| special: on crit onslaught/on kill recover HP mace: reduced enemy stun treshold/stun duration \| special: aoe on crit or reduce enemy attack/movespeed on stun for x seconds staves: block chance + ele damage \| special: on block gain onslaught, wand: ????? bow: projectile speed + piercing \| special: knockback on crit and seriousleh buff 2h passives... maybe make a keystone passive: Karui Way - reduced global melee attack speed by 40%, increase global melee attack damage by 40% the way i see it, there's no way to rebalance weapons/equips. it will hurt EVERYONE the only way to "balance" at this point is to make passives more useful [Removed by Support]	Posted by exsea#1724 on Sep 4, 2014, 5:14:29 AM Quote this Post
The obvious solution would be to tone down the dagger nodes. That way you can prevent any more collateral damage. And maybe set the max base attack speed for daggers around 1.3-1.4, there really is no need for hard and fast critting. I was running a tanky spec throw life-build pre-patch, using a solid 1h-axe (phd~325). Still, dps was low. After the patch, i had less life and opted to starring down the mobs. Seemed more efficient than throwing my axe. But my bet is on another ST nerf.	Posted by xanap#4043 on Sep 4, 2014, 6:45:22 AM Quote this Post
So after talking with a bunch of peoples , It really is just crit multi that is the main evil here. most crit builds i know only get to their insane dps levels once they go past 400 multi. Daggers are just the obvious poster child of this , but really you can get stupid dps with any weapon that has the potential for 8+ base crit chance. And I dont think a soft cap would work , diminishing returns often leave the player feeling cheated. Because it is just an arbitrary setting that is nerfing their progress. I think instead a firm cap would be better , that way the player knows that up to point X they get 100% bang for their buck but also know of a clear area in which to stop.	Posted by Saltychipmunk#1430 on Sep 4, 2014, 8:38:14 AM Quote this Post
Crit multi is indeed a problem but theres a problem with daggers at the base : best sword : 568 dps with 6.29 crit base and 20% global crit multi best axe : 544 dps with 6.9 crit base and... nothing else best dagger : 555 dps with 9.21 crit base and 40% global crit chance Anyone else see some sort of imbalance?	Posted by Krayken#1299 on Sep 4, 2014, 12:59:55 PM Quote this Post
" Krayken wrote: Crit multi is indeed a problem but theres a problem with daggers at the base : best sword : 568 dps with 6.29 crit base and 20% global crit multi best axe : 544 dps with 6.9 crit base and... nothing else best dagger : 555 dps with 9.21 crit base and 40% global crit chance Anyone else see some sort of imbalance? Thats how ggg see balance, not imbalance.	Posted by HunterKalla#6741 on Sep 4, 2014, 2:58:22 PM Quote this Post
Don't nerf daggers,introduce 2 handed KATANAS and make them the OPEST shit EVER!!!(nerdgasm). I might even start playing again if katanas were in :P https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow	Posted by Poutsos#0458 on Sep 4, 2014, 7:31:17 PM Quote this Post
doesn't chris voice vorici, the dual dagger wielding assassin? how coincidental... "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."	Posted by _wuv_#1477 on Sep 4, 2014, 7:35:48 PM Quote this Post
" Krayken wrote: Crit multi is indeed a problem but theres a problem with daggers at the base : best sword : 568 dps with 6.29 crit base and 20% global crit multi best axe : 544 dps with 6.9 crit base and... nothing else best dagger : 555 dps with 9.21 crit base and 40% global crit chance Anyone else see some sort of imbalance? exactly GGG, This thread is now 21 pages long. If we could get some kind of response. Anything. Good. Bad. Something to point to. If its "we are working on it". That's fine. Even "We think they are perfectly balanced" is better than nothing. At least then we know where you guys stand.... something. Anything... Last edited by Tygerwoody#2689 on Sep 4, 2014, 10:09:05 PM	Posted by Tygerwoody#2689 on Sep 4, 2014, 10:07:32 PM Quote this Post
" Tygerwoody wrote: " Krayken wrote: Crit multi is indeed a problem but theres a problem with daggers at the base : best sword : 568 dps with 6.29 crit base and 20% global crit multi best axe : 544 dps with 6.9 crit base and... nothing else best dagger : 555 dps with 9.21 crit base and 40% global crit chance Anyone else see some sort of imbalance? exactly GGG, This thread is now 21 pages long. If we could get some kind of response. Anything. Good. Bad. Something to point to. If its "we are working on it". That's fine. Even "We think they are perfectly balanced" is better than nothing. At least then we know where you guys stand.... something. Anything... totally agree IGN Jinloman 08:00~24:00 UTC+8 TAIWAN R.O.C. Mirror Service-thread/556020	Posted by bb650427#0217 on Sep 4, 2014, 11:38:55 PM Quote this Post