The -15% exp penalty is obnoxiously bad outdated design.

It is a outdated design.

Having a debuff, "respawn" timer, option to run back to your body as a ghost (warcraft i think), resurect scrolls, gear dmg and repairs (could make a orb for that here). Or hey invent something new?

Death penalty as this wont work well on the long run. It has been tried, tested and exploited to extinction and didnt work ages ago already. The way it is in this game anyway.

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ljubisa24 wrote:

It is a outdated design.

Having a debuff, "respawn" timer, option to run back to your body as a ghost (warcraft i think), resurect scrolls, gear dmg and repairs (could make a orb for that here). Or hey invent something new?

Death penalty as this wont work well on the long run. It has been tried, tested and exploited to extinction and didnt work ages ago already. The way it is in this game anyway.

Won't work well in the long run, eh? The most successful ARPG in history disagrees with you.

I gave you the exact reason why the death penalty needs to be the way it is. You cannot refute it, you simply say BS like it is 'outdated' without any reasonable argument. If you actually have anything meaningful to say on the topic I would love to hear it, but this 'outdated design' is just crap and you know it.

/Fail

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thepmrc wrote:

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ljubisa24 wrote:

It is a outdated design.

Having a debuff, "respawn" timer, option to run back to your body as a ghost (warcraft i think), resurect scrolls, gear dmg and repairs (could make a orb for that here). Or hey invent something new?

Death penalty as this wont work well on the long run. It has been tried, tested and exploited to extinction and didnt work ages ago already. The way it is in this game anyway.

Won't work well in the long run, eh? The most successful ARPG in history disagrees with you.

I gave you the exact reason why the death penalty needs to be the way it is. You cannot refute it, you simply say BS like it is 'outdated' without any reasonable argument.

/Fail

There are arguments. You cant compare games from 100m years ago and now.

You want to stay in the past? Hey its your own funeral not mine! Somewhere in the past ppl discovered other and better systems that actually work better then simply "dont die". Systems that made use of some items, fixed economy, gave the games more content, made some classes much more fun to use and etc. And hey why not add a negative exp gained debuff that lasts a few hours or one day instead of this?

And even if you do insist it should stay (did not say it shouldnt but u should maybe L2R) the current ammount that is ingame at this very buggy, unbalanced, badly performing and not optimized TESTING stage of the game is bordering with idiotic.

There are arguments you just fail to see them. You yourself provided no arguments about why it should be in or why it should be this high other then "it works well" and the fact games made ages ago had that.

Also i am obviously not saying there should be no death penalty. Just saying this one is pointless and bad for the game itself.

And again you didnt answer me where can i see the ammount of ppl online in the servers atm ? I would love to see the numbers.

Sounds like somebody dies a bunch, and you also come across as maybe 12-13 years old. I for one could care less what you think. You do not know better than the developers, or an inanimate object for that matter, what is good for the game.

Newer games do tend to be watered down pieces of trash like you said and I personally hate it. Luckily this isn't one of them! This game doesn't treat you like a small child who cannot think for themselves. This game gives you options and balances those options with consequences. This is not your typical 2013 trash AAA title that garbage developers like Activision put out. You want garbage go play mainstream MMOs, don't expect one of the last vestige's of hope in the gaming industry to conform to the crap that is modern gaming.

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Fluttershypony wrote:

Having exp loss in a grindy game where you can randomly go 3000+ -> 0hp in the span of 3 seconds is retarded design.

Now add in bad netcode, rubberbanding, invisible projectiles and burning aura mobs that still do full damage 3/4 of the screen away(in your client) and this is the complete opposite of fun.

boo hoo softcore player

is this serious?

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Dreadforge wrote:

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Fluttershypony wrote:

Having exp loss in a grindy game where you can randomly go 3000+ -> 0hp in the span of 3 seconds is retarded design.

Now add in bad netcode, rubberbanding, invisible projectiles and burning aura mobs that still do full damage 3/4 of the screen away(in your client) and this is the complete opposite of fun.

boo hoo softcore player

is this serious?

Yes. They blame their own shortcomings on the game design.

If only JW were here to show us what true fun is! All this incorrect fun we are having is getting out of hand!

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thepmrc wrote:

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Dreadforge wrote:

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Fluttershypony wrote:

Having exp loss in a grindy game where you can randomly go 3000+ -> 0hp in the span of 3 seconds is retarded design.

Now add in bad netcode, rubberbanding, invisible projectiles and burning aura mobs that still do full damage 3/4 of the screen away(in your client) and this is the complete opposite of fun.

boo hoo softcore player

is this serious?

Yes. They blame their own shortcomings on the game design.

If only JW were here to show us what true fun is! All this incorrect fun we are having is getting out of hand!

Yeah, and the hardcore players think they are hotshit because they play OP builds which allow them to plow through the game without any skill required, especially when partying

Please stop using these arguments, they are terrible and they can be used both ways

The current death penalty is terrible in design

And D2 was not perfect, get over it. If you think D2 was perfect, then why are you playing PoE?

OK after reading a few of these posts I gotta say something:

Do you know why "hardcore" games seem to be a dying breed? Because "hardcore" players are often just about the worst people in history for arguing for their style of game or play. They rarely know how to argue positively for something or how to explain something's merits to new players unfamiliar with the game, and instead they rely on insulting others and ad hominem argument.

When the only way you know how to interact with people who disagree with you or who have different preferences than you is to insult them and act like an arrogant prick, that does NOTHING positive to further your cause.

Some people in here have tried to put forth decent argument for why the 15% penalty is a good thing. To you, even though I may somwehat disagree with you, kudos. That's what is needed.

To the arrogant elitists who don't know how to argue with anything but ad hominem attacks: I think CoD on XBL called and wanted their foul mouthed teenagers back.

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deteego wrote:

Yeah, and the hardcore players think they are hotshit because they play OP builds which allow them to plow through the game without any skill required, especially when partying

Please stop using these arguments, they are terrible and they can be used both ways

The current death penalty is terrible in design

And D2 was not perfect, get over it. If you think D2 was perfect, then why are you playing PoE?

I don't think im hot shit. I don't think D2 was perfect. However, the design goals of the XP penalty and the results of said system are perfect. The implementation accomplishes the design goal... I understand that you cannot comprehend this as you cannot see past your own delusions. YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GAME DESIGN SO STOP SAYING IT IS TERRIBLE DESIGN.

My arguments are based on game balance and design goals. Your arguments are based on being butt hurt from dying. Get over it.

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tackle70 wrote:

When the only way you know how to interact with people who disagree with you or who have different preferences than you is to insult them and act like an arrogant prick, that does NOTHING positive to further your cause.

Some people in here have tried to put forth decent argument for why the 15% penalty is a good thing. To you, even though I may somwehat disagree with you, kudos. That's what is needed.

To the arrogant elitists who don't know how to argue with anything but ad hominem attacks: I think CoD on XBL called and wanted their foul mouthed teenagers back.

You make a very valid point. I think people are a bit defensive about this because there is not much left in this type of genre, i don't like the label 'hardcore' game but prefer old school hehe. We don't want this game to turn into another boring modern game. We don't want hand holding. We want meaningful choices, and harsh consequences. These are things that are not present in modern games and we have (many of us anyway) have donated to GGG specifically because they share our vision and we don't want that vision to be compromised because random noobs cant be bothered to read.

That being said this works both ways. Stating that this is terrible design with no background in game design, and no tangible explanation for why it is bad design other than that it was used in older games is purely asinine.

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thepmrc wrote:

YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GAME DESIGN SO STOP SAYING IT IS TERRIBLE DESIGN.

My arguments ...

You often resort to posts that don't make relevant arguments to what you're responding to, as here. When you resort to making statements like "you don't know what you're talking about" which is just a fancy form of saying "you're an idiot", you are no longer actually making an argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I hate to break it to you, but your preferences don't rule the world, and not everyone is going to think the same way you do. Perhaps instead of insulting them, you could try to explain why it would be better if they saw things your way.