Why don't bows require strength?

Contrary to popular belief, bows actually require more strength than using two-handed swords. I would argue that bows require even more strength than 2 handed war hammers.

The minimum draw weight of a war bow is 60 pounds, or about 27 kilos.
this means, to use the bow, you need to be able to pull 27 kilos worth of weight.

While this isn't directly comparable to wielding a sword, we can however take a look at 2-handed swords:
The heaviest medieval 2-handed swords, that saw combat, weighed around 8 pounds or 3,5 kg, but due to the center of gravity being near the hilt, they were still very nimble.
The length of these blades were about 1,4m with the full sword being about 1,8m.
do note, that these were the heaviest spec I could find for a 2 handed sword, the typical 2 handed medieval sword rarely exceeded 2,25kg, and were usually even lighter than that.
(do note, that katanas weighed about the same, but had a blade about 2/3 as long as an european 2-handed sword, not to mention the center of gravity being further away from the hilt meaning the sword was less-nimble than an european one).

So anyway, even if we took the heaviest "practical" 2-handed sword, we're looking at a huge difference in required strengths.

The sword may weigh 3,5kg, but you have both hands moving it around, so it will not require much to use it. I'm pretty sure anyone in these forums could perform adequately with the heaviest of 2 handed swords.

But a war bow? You need to be able to pull back at least 27kg's worth of weight apart. Not that easy of a feat.

If anything, bows should have the highest strength requirement in the game.

Since game itemization is more important than real world mechanics.

We need Greatbows like in Dark Souls

Obviously all the bows are actually compound bows.

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kasub wrote:

Since game itemization is more important than real world mechanics.

It's just weird that you have the highest str requiring weapons require none of it, while weapons requiring much less as needing too much, or any at all.

Kinda like, if we made 2 handed hammers require only dexterity, while daggers require the most strength.
The order in which the weapons are, regarding strength requirements, is off.

Would you honestly say "game itemization is more important than real world mechanics" if daggers required the most and nothing but strength to use, and hammers required none?

And you can't really cast fire IRL.

It's a MMORPG, you can't compare real life to it, true most games that have a bow (expect crysis and the obvious)require agility/dexterity over strength.

It's how they classify classes.

Bows being dexterity aligned is a pretty classic rpg trope, it's not like PoE is randomly assigning stats.

Do note that tropes are not necessarily realistic even when they're used often in a medium. Daggers being dexterity based is also pretty common although in this case it's a hybrid.

anyone who used a bow knows what OP says - bows require one to be really fit (not packed, but fit) to use

anyone can take pretty strong bow and use it. ONCE.

doing a FITA training round (144 arrows) or participating in any kind of field sports (like 2d or 3d timed games - 60+ arrows) requires immense fitness. try to aim when you are shaking uncontrollably.

raw strenght is needed but what makes it bit easier and deceives most non-archers is the simple fact that you need strong BACK muscles, not arm muscles. arms just need to be strong enough to 'lock' themselves, the whole pull is done by back muscles. this might be deceiving as seeing female (small framed and slim) archers leads people to think that it does not need any strength. just look at their back muscles. it does.

so yes, bows should require strength (like 1str/2dex ratio) but as in all games done in the past bow is 'dex based' and we get what we get

daggers that outdps 2h mauls :)

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Idioticus wrote:

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kasub wrote:

Since game itemization is more important than real world mechanics.

It's just weird that you have the highest str requiring weapons require none of it, while weapons requiring much less as needing too much, or any at all.

Kinda like, if we made 2 handed hammers require only dexterity, while daggers require the most strength.
The order in which the weapons are, regarding strength requirements, is off.

Would you honestly say "game itemization is more important than real world mechanics" if daggers required the most and nothing but strength to use, and hammers required none?

That would trash itemization.

Melee weapons require strength because that is the core theme of melee (hit things hard)
Ranged weapons require Dex because that is the core theme of ranged (be accurate)

It's not about how weapons work in the real world. It's about how they need to work to make itemization work. If we were being completely mechanically sound our characters would require actual training to use 90% of these items (limiting number of usable items) and attack speeds would max out in the 1APS range with jut about every weapon.

Sometimes game mechanics are just more important than realism.

@Shadow: This is not an MMORPG it is amultiplayer online RPG, it doesn't come close to "massively".

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Autocthon wrote:

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Idioticus wrote:

"

kasub wrote:

Since game itemization is more important than real world mechanics.

It's just weird that you have the highest str requiring weapons require none of it, while weapons requiring much less as needing too much, or any at all.

Kinda like, if we made 2 handed hammers require only dexterity, while daggers require the most strength.
The order in which the weapons are, regarding strength requirements, is off.

Would you honestly say "game itemization is more important than real world mechanics" if daggers required the most and nothing but strength to use, and hammers required none?

That would trash itemization.

Melee weapons require strength because that is the core theme of melee (hit things hard)
Ranged weapons require Dex because that is the core theme of ranged (be accurate)

It's not about how weapons work in the real world. It's about how they need to work to make itemization work. If we were being completely mechanically sound our characters would require actual training to use 90% of these items (limiting number of usable items) and attack speeds would max out in the 1APS range with jut about every weapon.

Sometimes game mechanics are just more important than realism.

@Shadow: This is not an MMORPG it is amultiplayer online RPG, it doesn't come close to "massively".

How would reducing bow dex req and giving it an str req "trash" itemization?
It's not like there aren't any str nodes anywhere near the right side of the skill tree.

Also, wouldn't it be awesome to have a pure str req bow? I'd love to make an iron grip marauder using a bow.
It's not like there's only one type of bow, you could have a dex/str and just str bows.

And "hitting things hard" with melee? The only things you hit hard with a melee weapon are armored targets with plate armor. And you use a hammer for that... and even then it doesn't require that much strength. In all other cases, using a sword as a thrusting weapon against armored targets means you have to do half-swording and aim for the weak spots.
As for bows, I read somewhere that the strongest archers used longbows with a draw weight of over 150 pounds, that's over 68kg.

The only reason bows are dex-only, is because some idiot way back when thought "bows look flimsy, so they have to be for the weak" and GGG continues the tradition.

It's just ridiculous that the weapon requiring the most strength to use, requires none of it in the game. Giving the answer "lol, magic" doesn't apply here, because why would there be any other requirement than intelligent if that were the case?
Or why even have a stat requirement in the first place?