Trade Hate: Which one takes more skill?

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iamstryker wrote:

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LSN wrote:

there is no single good reason

There's really just as much reason for a base SFL (no tweaks) as there is for hardcore. Some people want it and some people don't.

I see no good reason for hardcore because I don't care one iota about it. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist for other people.

Same thing for softcore I guess

wich is what he was saying. hardcore, softcore, and whatever else, none of them are necessary to have. congratulations!

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There's really just as much reason for a base SFL (no tweaks) as there is for hardcore. Some people want it and some people don't.

I see no good reason for hardcore because I don't care one iota about it. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist for other people.

Yes, thats what I am talking about. If SFL were being implemented they had to go with 4 new leagues as mentioned for several reason. There is no good reason to implement a SC SFL and not implementing a HC SFL. There is no reason at all to implement SF Leagues when not following consistantly the existing concepts of offering all players optionally a fresh start every 4 months and all this for softcore and hardcore as well.

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I see no good reason for hardcore because I don't care one iota about it. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist for other people.

Exactly this was my point. When goint for SFL it must be fitting in the current concept of perm/temp and sc/hc leagues. This means running 8 instead of 4 leagues long term. This is as undebateable as unwanted/detrimental.

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Interaction may have kept the game alive for you and others like you.

I played d2 only in single player at this time. Then went back to scbw. But I know what kept d2 alive. It were the ladder seasons in combination with pvping, pking, trading.

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Yes, and this sucks. But that's a real problem now already, even without optional leagues we don't have yet. After a temp. league ends, all it's characters are being dumped into Standard. SFL or not, but this is a problem.

You are making up problems and its quite visible where you are coming from here. On the one hand nothing is dumped into standard on the other hand it is a feature and not a problem that ppl of all leagues can play together in standard after temp leagues end. If you want to play new temp leagues, you can go ahead and continue to do so, if you want to play perm leagues you can go ahead and continue as well. You obviously got a problem with ppl in standard having alot more than you and big wealth and therefore call it "dumped".

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Running a SFL for 4 Months would be completely pointless. It takes FAR longer to complete a character selffound than in the temporary leagues. If SFL, then permanent is the only reasonable option.

So what is the point in starting to play in a SFL after it has been running already for 2+ years and 24/7 guys have every item and you compete with them in the ladder? SFL btw. does not mean that you solo play but that you cant share/trade loot. Here it is clearly visible that you want the game to be tweaked towards your own benefits. You want to start competing in a SFL with seperate ladder now. What about the guys who want to do the same in about 8 months from now? They dont matter, because the game has to be just fitting for you. Therefore 1 SFL for you, right now, is enough. Until you decide (or brighten up your brain) it can be different and ppl who start playing SFL in 1 year might enjoy and want to play in a SFL that gives a fresh start for everyone.

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I won't even answer the D3 BS here because i've done so above in the same thread several times. Maybe on the same page.

Which bullshit? Self-found in diablo 3 is safe to make it a 100% casual mindless console game that has lost all flavour which d2 once had in this aspect (amongst the others).

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Of course there is no need for a selffound league. Just like there is no need for difficulty selections in Tetris. It's just nice to have options to play around with and have the game suit more than one playstyle if it isn't a problem for the developer to add those options (Would it be difficult to add a Self found league? I don't know).

Seriously, comparing difficulties in tetris with this and what effects both have is nowhere near accurate.

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rrtson wrote:

Case in point: I often find it amusing that someone would actually congratulate me on a lucky drop

con·grat·u·la·tion

noun \kən-ˌgra-chə-ˈlā-shən, -ˌgra-jə-\
congratulations : a message telling someone that you are happy because of his or her success or good luck : words that congratulate someone

: the act of telling someone that you are happy because of his or her success or good luck : the act of congratulating someone.


Must be a wonderful life, where everyday mundane human acts, applied correctly, for the right reasons, bring about amusement.

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LSN wrote:

You are making up problems here and its quite visible where you are coming from here. On the one hand nothing is dumped but into standard on the other hand it is a feature and not a problem that ppl of all leagues can play together in standard in the end after leagues end.

You claimed it was a problem that players would find themselves in the wrong league after playing a lot. Wich is what i described here. If you start fresh in a challenge league you'll suddenly be in standard where you maybe didn't want to go. But sure, i'm making this up.

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LSN wrote:

If you want to play temp leagues, you can go ahead and continue, if you want to play perm leagues you can go ahead and continue as well.

You don't "continue" in new leagues.

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LSN wrote:

You obviously got a problem with ppl in standard having alot more than you and big wealth and therefore call it "dumped".

No, you are making that up. I don't have any problem whatsoever in this game right now. I sympathize with SFL supporters somewhat because i think it's always good to have more options and less restrictions. And to be honest, i'm sick of this now. Since it doesn't seem to be possible to discuss the SFL topic without having to deal with pointless accusations and Diablo 3 comparisons that make no sense i'll simply leave it at that.

@Lugrum

Its getting quite ridiculous.

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If you start fresh in a challenge league you'll suddenly be in standard where you maybe didn't want to go. But sure, i'm making this up.

This can't be compared with what I described. The problem, tho, does exist already now. Ambush or standard? Most new players are unaware of the benefits and features and have a hard time to decide. It would be increased to ambush or standard or ambush sfl or standard sfl which makes it alot more complicated and alot more likely for someone to pick the wrong one accidently (what the player recognizes later on). That leagues join each other in the end is not a problem at all of this kind. Yes you are making things up, clearly!

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You don't "continue" in new leagues.

You got this wrong completely. If you wanted to play permanent league, you could have done so. If you opt for playing a 4 month league, then you can continue to play the new 4 month league after it ended. Or you decide to keep on playing your originally 4 month only chars in the permanent league. It is all good as it is.

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I sympathize with SFL supporters somewhat because i think it's always good to have more options and less restrictions.

SFL however, greatly reduces the options for players and builds up artifical trading restrictions.

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And to be honest, i'm sick of this now. Since it doesn't seem to be possible to discuss the SFL topic without having to deal with pointless accusations and Diablo 3 comparisons that make no sense i'll simply leave it at that.

Well, you haven't even thought it through. All you want is a standard perm sfl for you and thats about it. But things dont work out that way, because there are other players who want e.g. HC SFL or 4 month SFLs as well. The consistency in concept of leagues, which is important, is something that I explained here. This means SFL would double the amount of leagues from 4 to 8. It is detrimental for PoE and reasons were given. You are sick of others being right while you are wrong and only argue your very limited own point of view while neglecting everything else.

@lsn.

That bit about SFL increasing restrictions and not reducing them is a straight up lie by you.

Adding an entire new league, factually, on its own, can not increase restrictions. Its another choice overall, factually.

Honestly..

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LSN wrote:

Most new players are unaware of the benefits and features and have a hard time to decide. It would be increased to ambush or standard or ambush sfl or standard sfl which makes it alot more complicated and alot more likely for someone to pick the wrong one accidently (what the player recognizes later on).



SFL however, greatly reduces the options for players and builds up artifical trading restrictions.

Why would it be any different than HC? A popup box saying are you sure you want to join the Self Found League? Trading will be completely disabled. And you would have to check yes.

HC greatly reduces your options as you have to build huge survivability, yet many still choose to play it because that's what they enjoy.

@OP

By the way is this thread actually insinuating that reentering criteria over and over into poe.xyz to determine average value of items is a skill?

And then there's the amazing skill of saying "I offer 2c" for their obviously 5c valued item, such talent.

This is just a massive time sink I'd rather not deal with. Just because you put more steps on the trading side doesn't make it skill based...

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MierenEronaile wrote:

@lsn.

That bit about SFL increasing restrictions and not reducing them is a straight up lie by you.

Adding an entire new league, factually, on its own, can not increase restrictions. Its another choice overall, factually.

Honestly..

He said it is always good to have more options and less restrictions. Ofc in the first hand implementing SFL does increases options for players. The option for more restrictions and limited options striktly speaking. Obviously he was lying when saying that he always ...

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Why would it be any different than HC? A popup box saying are you sure you want to join the Self Found League? Trading will be completely disabled. And you would have to check yes.

HC greatly reduces your options as you have to build huge survivability, yet many still choose to play it because that's what they enjoy.

HC and SC split up the players into two parts. Making a SFL for both of them even into 4 parts. Counting in perm and temp leagues makes this 8 parts.

While splitting up is always bad in such games (different realms, servers etc.) is usually a huge limiting factor, the original decision obv. was to make it hc vs sc and perm vs temp leagues and fuse them together in the 2 perm leagues again in the end. This makes 4 leagues and 2 permanent leagues.

Of course splitting up more exponentially increases the problem.

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Since it doesn't seem to be possible to discuss the SFL topic without having to deal with pointless accusations and Diablo 3 comparisons that make no sense i'll simply leave it at that.

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LSN wrote:

LSN wrote:
You have written a lot of bullshit and are getting sick. I got it.

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LSN wrote:

LSN wrote:
You are sick of others being right while you are wrong and only argue your very limited own point of view while neglecting everything else.

yeah.

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LSN wrote:

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MierenEronaile wrote:

@lsn.

That bit about SFL increasing restrictions and not reducing them is a straight up lie by you.

Adding an entire new league, factually, on its own, can not increase restrictions. Its another choice overall, factually.

Honestly..

He said it is always good to have more options and less restrictions. Ofc in the first hand implementing SFL does increases options for players. The option for more restrictions and limited options striktly speaking. Obviously he was lying when saying that he always ...

The fact the new league has restrictions does NOT RESTRICT ANYONE more than they are already restricted.