RNG is good.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"these copycats, with their build envy, their 5L and 6L formulas, their droprate buffs and self-found leagues" - never asked for a drop-rate buff because that's random too. and did you just call me a "copycat"?

You're so vain; you probably think this thread is about you.

edit: But thanks, I realized this was an error with the OP, fixing it now.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"And RNG, you mark my words, will not only destroy Path of Exile, but that other wonderful entity called ARPGs"

I believe the proper term is "MMORPG." After all, you want your "first damned 6-link. and make it a Shavronne's Wrappings... as a trophy for first-time killing Palace Dominus." Nice quest reward for GGGWoW.

"

elwindakos wrote:

+1 to op.Its a mentality thing really and people that expierienced arpgs in the past are more likely to agree.

This game isnt for everyone,but can grow on 'new age gamers' as i call them.

This are the kind of players that prefer to jump in a game,be flashy enough and end game in some hours with a smile on their face the whole time.Just like watcing a movie,end it,shelve it,if it had some superior aspect,remember it for a while.

They prefer the destination and not the journey.That journey can be harsh,joyful,live.Yet destination is all they can think.Yolo right?Its the today we live and nothing else,they say.
If only they knew what are they missing...

+1

Gags aside, I appreciate the sentiment Scrot elucidates.

It's interesting to me that Scrot chose Wall Street as the pop culture shout out. Whether by accident or design, Wall Street (both in the movies and in reality) captures the essence of humanity's DNA. We're genetically greedy, that's how we came to own this planet.

It should therefore come as no surprise that we behave as a pack in so many ways, we're not in it for our own individual journey (as wonderful as the sentiment is), most of us are in it to win. When one person shows how to win easy, we all want to win easy.

No impassioned plea on this forum is going to change that, developers just have to work within such confines to steer us in the right direction (whatever they think it is), comrade.

P.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

I believe the proper term is "MMORPG." After all, you want your "first damned 6-link. and make it a Shavronne's Wrappings... as a trophy for first-time killing Palace Dominus." Nice quest reward for GGGWoW.

the proper term, is "risk and reward".
and that was an abstract example of how you can make a player feel like he/she actually accomplished something using their own skill and dedication, rather than just got lucky.
or got screwed out of nowhere, and have no option to do anything about that if they did.

MMO? couldn't really get into that genre, and believe me I tried.
but there are some things some MMOs do right, just like there are things Fighting Games do right.
you can look at the entire world of gaming for inspiration, rather than just "what other aRPGs do".
and speaking of "other aRPGs": some do some things a hell of a lot better than Path Of Exile, while PoE does some things better than them (skill tree, for example).

"

1988288 wrote:

"

GingerBeast wrote:

The one and ONLY reason I do not fully agree with this post is that actual game content is gated behind RNG. Gear, weapons, even gems, I can understand being reliant on RNG because it is what gives me a reason to keep playing; but actual content being gated behind RNG is too much IMHO.

I am specifically talking about Atrizi here. If I can kill Merc Dom then I should't have to rely on chance to be able to fight Atrizi. I think that putting actual story-line behind a gate of RNG was going too far with it.

I don't think your level 69 character would do good vs Atziri.

Gating content behind RNG, or what the hell developers wish - is fine by me, as I'm used to adapt to what games throws at me.

I never said, nor meant to imply, that my level 69 character would be able to even make it through the map to get to Atrizi (although I'm fairly certian my level 68 could....maybe not kill her though, but it would be fun to try), but thanks for making the post somehow a persoanl attack on my own abilities.

The point that I was making is that the game is harmed when content cant be viewed except by chance. The most badass player in the game, in theory, might not ever even have a chance to play a portion of the actual story-line based game. That is where I think RNG is harmful.

"

Splift wrote:

Regardless, skilled players can find consistent success, beating rng in even the worst circumstances by knowing how to work with it.

Yea , its called RMT.

"

BoondockSaint wrote:

"

Splift wrote:

Regardless, skilled players can find consistent success, beating rng in even the worst circumstances by knowing how to work with it.

Yea , its called RMT.

it can also be called "sitting in town trading 24/7" or "being a streamer and getting freebies from fans and 'bro prices' when doing said 24/7 trade".

none of the above have anything to do with actually killing shit and earning your goddamned 6-linked Shavs, because the game simply has no such option.

Atziri was supposed to be PoE's "Tarroch's Tomb" (Torchlight 2) - a crazy fucking challenge where you are guaranteed good loot if you win.
but guess who is sitting on that Midnight Fragment (and other ones too) singing "tro lololo"?
that's right, RNG!

and what about Unique Strongboxes? that's right! you need to beat a crazy boss, 3 (!) Rogue Exiles or 5(!) Rares (any of whom can have any of the nasty auras) to get your "phat lootz".
now, all the people who ever saw a unique strongbox - please raise your hands.

sometimes, GGG go in the right direction - but then they just fail to peel-off the entire smelly RNG onion, instead of just taking out one layer and saying "fixed".

"

johnKeys wrote:

how you can make a player feel like he/she actually accomplished something using their own skill and dedication

Let me tell you a little story about feeling accomplished in PoE.

So I'm at the point where I'm doing 70 maps and it's Villa time. Throw on an Alch, and I get "Area has 2 unique bosses," "-x% maximum resistances," and "cursed with Vulnerability." Probably some other mods too; don't remember them. Scary Caligas are scary; scary Fire Traps are scary.

Could have used a Chaos Orb. Could have skipped the boss room.

Nope; I doesn't afraid of anything, and except for the 2 bosses, affixes give nice quantity. Very tough fight. Played it very slow, one Caliga at a time. Didn't die. Killed them both.

Risk: Substantial.
Item-based reward: I can't remember if the Caligas dropped anything noteworthy. I did, however, maintain my status as a Chaos Orb cheapass.
Feel-based reward: Priceless.

I'm surprised john even posts here. I mean, it's not rewarding unless it gives you items, so until you get a Chaos for pressing the Submit button, I just don't understand his motivation.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

"

johnKeys wrote:

how you can make a player feel like he/she actually accomplished something using their own skill and dedication

Let me tell you a little story about feeling accomplished in PoE.

So I'm at the point where I'm doing 70 maps and it's Villa time. Throw on an Alch, and I get "Area has 2 unique bosses," "-x% maximum resistances," and "cursed with Vulnerability." Probably some other mods too; don't remember them. Scary Caligas are scary; scary Fire Traps are scary.

Could have used a Chaos Orb. Could have skipped the boss room.

Nope; I doesn't afraid of anything, and except for the 2 bosses, affixes give nice quantity. Very tough fight. Played it very slow, one Caliga at a time. Didn't die. Killed them both.

Risk: Substantial.
Item-based reward: I can't remember if the Caligas dropped anything noteworthy. I did, however, maintain my status as a Chaos Orb cheapass.
Feel-based reward: Priceless.

I'm surprised john even posts here. I mean, it's not rewarding unless it gives you items, so until you get a Chaos for pressing the Submit button, I just don't understand his motivation.

now let's theoretically assume that while you were being stupid/crazy running that Villa, I did yet another Docks run, and a random rock dropped me a random 5-linked Shav. then I opened a random box and look at that - a Bringer Of Rain, all perfect legacy and shit!

oh, and the next run just randomly dropped me 10 Exalts, which may be completely worthless as orbs in the "crafting" system PoE has, but are sure as hell good dollar bills for that filthy disgusting black market you so adore as "the holy PoE economy".

that means I'm soooo much more hardcore than you, Scrotie.
hell, it even means I'm a better player than you, because I used that random stuff to randomly get past all the random gear-checks, randomly dropping +2 maps all the way up to randomly passing all your characters on the grand ladder of skill and courage.

and obviously, I have more shinies.
fuck, I have so many shinies I can build any kind of character I could possibly think of, farm Uber Atziri all day long, or just make thousands of real-life dollars selling my stuff to the scum of the earth (a.k.a RMT sites).
I can also control their revenue directly, by controlling the "market prices" for the stuff nobody else but me has (sucks for them not passing the gear checks).
80000 Exalts for a pair of gloves? that's right scrub! better go sell your real-life house.
I can do that because I'm the Fking king of Path Of Exile. a living pixel-god.
they should make a giant statue of me in Sarn.
game is fine. RNG is awesome. thank you GGG.

................
...
killed 2 Caligas and got nothing, huh? that's nice dear :)
.......................
.................



now, do you finally get the point I'm trying to make?


as for that last remark of yours, I find it insulting.
you of all people should know not to imply I'm entitled, or want immediate rewards with zero effort.
on the contrary.

I'm not pushing that "submit" button 4 fucking thousand times because I get Chaos Orbs out of it.
I do, because I care about the game and the direction it is taking.
maybe I shouldn't.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

"

johnKeys wrote:

how you can make a player feel like he/she actually accomplished something using their own skill and dedication

Let me tell you a little story about feeling accomplished in PoE.

So I'm at the point where I'm doing 70 maps and it's Villa time. Throw on an Alch, and I get "Area has 2 unique bosses," "-x% maximum resistances," and "cursed with Vulnerability." Probably some other mods too; don't remember them. Scary Caligas are scary; scary Fire Traps are scary.

Could have used a Chaos Orb. Could have skipped the boss room.

Nope; I doesn't afraid of anything, and except for the 2 bosses, affixes give nice quantity. Very tough fight. Played it very slow, one Caliga at a time. Didn't die. Killed them both.

Risk: Substantial.
Item-based reward: I can't remember if the Caligas dropped anything noteworthy. I did, however, maintain my status as a Chaos Orb cheapass.
Feel-based reward: Priceless.

I'm surprised john even posts here. I mean, it's not rewarding unless it gives you items, so until you get a Chaos for pressing the Submit button, I just don't understand his motivation.

now let's theoretically assume that while you were being stupid/crazy running that Villa, I did yet another Docks run, and a random rock dropped me a random 5-linked Shav. then I opened a random box and look at that - a Bringer Of Rain, all perfect legacy and shit!

oh, and the next run just randomly dropped me 10 Exalts, which may be completely worthless as orbs in the "crafting" system PoE has, but are sure as hell good dollar bills for that filthy disgusting black market you so adore as "the holy PoE economy".

that means I'm soooo much more hardcore than you, Scrotie.
hell, it even means I'm a better player than you, because I used that random stuff to randomly get past all the random gear-checks, randomly dropping +2 maps all the way up to randomly passing all your characters on the grand ladder of skill and courage.
and obviously, I have more shinies.

killed 2 Caligas and got nothing, huh? GG man :)


now, do you finally get the point I'm trying to make?

as for that last remark of yours, I find it insulting.
you of all people should know not to imply I'm entitled, or want immediate rewards with zero effort.
on the contrary.

I'm not pushing that "submit" button 4 fucking thousand times because I get Chaos Orbs out of it.
I do, because I care about the game and the direction it is taking.
maybe I shouldn't.

The whole point that you are actually missing is that for some, the game isnt about wealth, or being part of the elite crowd of conforming builds, or getting a fixed X for doing Y....we play for the sense that we overcame a challenge. And, if we do that without pressing specific buttons to make the means for that achievement guaranteed to appear in front of us (i.e. straight crafting and trading) it feels even better. The journey is the purpose of playing, not the destination. RNG is just the curves and forks in the road, it doesnt make riding on it any less fun. If you travel it long enough youll get to places you want to go. Its only wasted time if you didnt enjoy the ride. And if you dont, I know its cliche on these forums but maybe you really just dont find PoE fun and enjoyable. A change of the magnitude you seem to desire doesnt seem likely...GGG knows they cant please everyone.