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ROFL d2 had such a good item balance that the economy was based on massively duped items (high runes and stone of jordans). I played d2 for 4 years and only found 3 high runes total. No one would be running around with op runewords like enigma, grief, infinity, botd if that wasn't for the duping orgy that was diablo 2.
Which means, that most people don't give 2 shits about a good economy. They just want to have fun :)
Permanent famine league, gated items/content/builds and the heavy focus on items, rather than on diversity in self sustaining skills like diablo 2 are all boring and drive people away.
In fact, the massive duping didn't even matter in Diablo 2, since most builds were plenty viable with just basic gear against any PVE content.
Vote +1 to change Path of Exile to Path of Nerfs.
We hate to say, but ProjectPT was right.
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Posted byHyskoaon Apr 22, 2014, 11:11:05 AM
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Anyone blaming the drop rates doesn't understand anything about action rpgs.
What if they buff the drop rates?
1. Newbs will get good gear without much effort (and they'll still be newbs because they won't need to improve their skills to perform since their gear will just carry their incompetence). 2. Elite players will quit because they'll achieve BIS gear in no time and have nothing else to achieve.
Fact is no matter what the drop rates are, you will always want that next top gear.
Once everyone has rares with 6 top tiers mods they will want rares with 6 perfect top tier 1 mods.
The only drop rate they need to buff is midnight fragments because after 100+ corrupted areas i have yet to find one and id like to finally attempt the new content that was released almost 2 months ago.
I had "best" items in D2 - in fact every time I remade my accounts over the 10 years I played the game the drop rates were set at such a rate that I was able to SELF FIND every single time to "best" gear... not best rolled/best in slot - however BEST uniques anyways. (For example: if Koams were to roll anywhere from 300>500 health - I would be finding a Koams with 350 health)
D2 had a great balance in allowing player access to loot - but the game remained completely replayable just like POE would be cracking open the loot/craft window.
To me the only thing that having the craft/drop rates so bare boned minimum proves is: GGG is frightened. They are afraid their game lacks end game credibility. They know this actually. If you can't play the game enjoyably in full BIS to the last stat gear for years then your game itself is the issue and not the gear/drop rates. Think about it. Now I'm not talking "league of legends" over 30 mins you get to buy a BIS item of your choosing from an NPC - far from it. But a REASONABLE rate of return for time played closer to the D2 model is something that for sure needs attention here.
D3 gives loot out like candy at a parade. This is also NOT what I am looking for. That being said: I will be playing D3 2 years from now guaranteed. The end game systems they currently have are enjoyable and replayable. And I actually get loot that is fun and even if I never have BIS I will still have methods in game to be able to improve my character constantly. Even if I get tired of 1 character I can pick up another one - or spec into fire instead of ice... for example.
The loot in POE is terrible. Combine that with the game engine and lack of end game. Trading and having all your drops/loot based on the fact trading is the "go to" in the game... These are major issues that need major attention... making other games on the market a massive joy to play over POE. This is also not just my opinion. Reading these forums since Open Beta can attest that these are list items that the vast majority of players leaving have advised GGG to deaf and egotistical ears.
ROFL d2 had such a good item balance that the economy was based on massively duped items (high runes and stones of jordan). I played d2 for 4 years and only found 3 high runes total. No one would be running around with op runewords like enigma, grief, infinity, botd if that wasn't for the duping orgy that was diablo 2.
Drop rates for the very top uniques in d2 wasn't any better than it is in POE. Pretty sure that the drop rate for crown of ages and death cleaver (i found a couple of each in 4 years) are comparable to the ones of Soul Taker and Kaom's heart. Not to mention that d2 rares were almost all crap.
In poe i find an item worth 5-10 exalts every week (just yesterday i found a 525 dps 2h axe that i sold for 10 exalts). The drop rates are fine as they are.
I rarely if never traded. Over the 10 years I played I self found all of my characters to shakos and runes not only for me but my followers too. The drop rates in D2 were miles... MILES better than POE... they were the middle ground right now between POE and D3:ROS.
You are dreaming if you think that - for example - my 1000s hours playing in POE to a fruitless non-existing 6L and then 3-4 hours in D2 would net Shako quality greater loot drops consistently every single time you put in 3-4 hours of play. You might be on crack or maybe just didn't play it min-max MF orb sorc on full game boss runs.
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Posted byIsbox1on Apr 22, 2014, 11:15:35 AM
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I had "best" items in D2 - in fact every time I remade my accounts over the 10 years I played the game the drop rates were set at such a rate that I was able to SELF FIND every single time to "best" gear...
Sorry i simple don't believe you. I don't believe you self found:
legit Jah legit ber to make Enigma
legit Zod to make BOTD
2 legit bers to make infinity
Crown of ages
Tyrael's might
Griffon's eye
Mara's kaleidoscope
2 SoJ
9 of any SK you needed
With any legit farming build. I just don't believe it because those items i listed are the endgame ones
Also Diablo2 economy was million times worst than PoE ones. Go there and shake the hands of botter and dupers if you could even think about affording an Enigma
Last edited by Mahesys on Apr 22, 2014, 11:19:16 AM
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Posted byMahesyson Apr 22, 2014, 11:16:36 AM
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ROFL d2 had such a good item balance that the economy was based on massively duped items (high runes and stone of jordans). I played d2 for 4 years and only found 3 high runes total. No one would be running around with op runewords like enigma, grief, infinity, botd if that wasn't for the duping orgy that was diablo 2.
Which means, that most people don't give 2 shits about a good economy. They just want to have fun :)
Permanent famine league, gated items/content/builds and the heavy focus on items, rather than on diversity in self sustaining skills like diablo 2 are all boring and drive people away.
In fact, the massive duping didn't even matter in Diablo 2, since most builds were plenty viable with just basic gear against any PVE content.
A lot of people actually quitted diablo 2 after it turned into dupefest. Just so you know. After that the game was peasy baby easy. I'd rather play alien shooter than friggin diabloduped2.
Heart of Purity
Awarded 'Silverblade' to Talent Competition Winner 2020.
POE turned into a ratrace for the most div/hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDFO4E5OKSE Last edited by Reinhart on Apr 22, 2014, 11:18:47 AM
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Posted byReinharton Apr 22, 2014, 11:16:39 AM
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ROFL d2 had such a good item balance that the economy was based on massively duped items (high runes and stone of jordans). I played d2 for 4 years and only found 3 high runes total. No one would be running around with op runewords like enigma, grief, infinity, botd if that wasn't for the duping orgy that was diablo 2.
Which means, that most people don't give 2 shits about a good economy. They just want to have fun :)
Permanent famine league, gated items/content/builds and the heavy focus on items, rather than on diversity in self sustaining skills like diablo 2 are all boring and drive people away.
In fact, the massive duping didn't even matter in Diablo 2, since most builds were plenty viable with just basic gear against any PVE content.
You sure that a character without any op runewords could do any of the uber bosses? Unless you dont count them when you say "any pve content".
I mean killing Baal was pretty easy without any runewords, but so is killing Dominus without any good gear. POE has one additional layer of content after the 3 difficulties though : the mapping system, which makes it way more enjoyable and less repetitive than doing baal runs over and over, not having any challenge in the process.
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Posted byKraykenon Apr 22, 2014, 11:18:25 AM
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Anyone blaming the drop rates doesn't understand anything about action rpgs.
What if they buff the drop rates?
1. Newbs will get good gear without much effort (and they'll still be newbs because they won't need to improve their skills to perform since their gear will just carry their incompetence). 2. Elite players will quit because they'll achieve BIS gear in no time and have nothing else to achieve.
Fact is no matter what the drop rates are, you will always want that next top gear.
Once everyone has rares with 6 top tiers mods they will want rares with 6 perfect top tier 1 mods.
The only drop rate they need to buff is midnight fragments because after 100+ corrupted areas i have yet to find one and id like to finally attempt the new content that was released almost 2 months ago.
Awesome post. First a neat, little insult, followed by some hyperbole, painting a black and white picture of both the players and the game, then comes a heavy-handed assumption, betraying a good deal of ignorance and projection, and to top it all off, a self-serving suggestion bordering on a demand based solely on one's own experiences and preferences.
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Posted byJojason Apr 22, 2014, 11:19:57 AM
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I had "best" items in D2 - in fact every time I remade my accounts over the 10 years I played the game the drop rates were set at such a rate that I was able to SELF FIND every single time to "best" gear...
Sorry i simple don't believe you. I don't believe you self found:
legit Jah legit ber to make Enigma
legit Zod to make BOTD
2 legit bers to make infinity
Crown of ages
Tyrael's might
Griffon's eye
Mara's kaleidoscope
2 SoJ
9 of any SK you needed
With any legit farming build. I just don't believe it
Also Diablo2 economy was million times worst than PoE ones. Go there and shake the hands of botter and dupers if you could even think about affording an Enigma
I don't care if you don't believe me. The thing that you probably don't take into consideration is how easy it was to have a crack at high runes since leveling was ridiculously easy you could make throw away characters just to have a crack at it... or countess runs for HR runes. Typically 10 hours would net you something.
We are also talking about every single inventory space filled with MF charms - only enough room for 1 item drop... and then joining full games to farm specific bosses.
I understand that you didn't do these min-max things.
D2 drop rates were awesome. D3 too relaxed. POE are currently set to below "Korean grind fest" standards. Maybe you just enjoy those types of games.
Last edited by Isbox1 on Apr 22, 2014, 11:24:56 AM
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Posted byIsbox1on Apr 22, 2014, 11:24:22 AM
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ROFL d2 had such a good item balance that the economy was based on massively duped items (high runes and stone of jordans). I played d2 for 4 years and only found 3 high runes total. No one would be running around with op runewords like enigma, grief, infinity, botd if that wasn't for the duping orgy that was diablo 2.
Which means, that most people don't give 2 shits about a good economy. They just want to have fun :)
Permanent famine league, gated items/content/builds and the heavy focus on items, rather than on diversity in self sustaining skills like diablo 2 are all boring and drive people away.
In fact, the massive duping didn't even matter in Diablo 2, since most builds were plenty viable with just basic gear against any PVE content.
You sure that a character without any op runewords could do any of the uber bosses? Unless you dont count them when you say "any pve content".
I mean killing Baal was pretty easy without any runewords, but so is killing Dominus without any good gear. POE has one additional layer of content after the 3 difficulties though : the mapping system, which makes it way more enjoyable and less repetitive than doing baal runs over and over, not having any challenge in the process.
That's the thing, those baal/cow runs were more enjoyable than doing maps or any of the other endgame this game has to offer. Simply because the skills themselves felt good to use. You completed your build, got an item here and there. Were able to do decent damage and survive for a long time. And you just kept doing the runs in hopes of getting a decent item every now and again.
But the essential part, being able to play with a viable full build at Bhaal was enough to make me reroll 30 accounts worth of lvl 95+ characters.
But yeah, never gave a shit about Uber baal and the rest since I didn't enjoy it.
Valid point though.
For me, if they improved the levelling curve from lvl 40 till lvl 100 and allowed for a repeatable area similar to cow level, where you just nuke enemies for insane XP and ok drops, I'd still be playing.
But make sure that one map is optimized like hell. Segmented loot only(otherwise we might as well install pickit again, since FFA loot is laughable.) To allow for party play without insane lag and desync every 3 bleeding seconds.
Because honestly, this game has no fun endgame. At all. And I got bored replaying lvl 1-40.
Vote +1 to change Path of Exile to Path of Nerfs.
We hate to say, but ProjectPT was right.
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Posted byHyskoaon Apr 22, 2014, 11:27:14 AM
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Then of course it's safe to assume the level of success they've had with the game will produce it's own inertia, as in - they'll naturally become a little more hesitant to tinker with a working formula in fear of making things worse.
+1 insightful. will be interesting to see if that's what happens.
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Posted byplasticeyeson Apr 22, 2014, 11:29:19 AM
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they just want the game to appeal to a very small playerbase....
Yup, a niche few.
The niche that are happy, the niche at the top of an economic pyramid, the playground of the rich crafters, the successful traders, the popular streamers. The peak of the pyramid that require the middle and bottom that.. GGG... don't... want... the ... game... to... appeal... to.
Oh, dear!!!
Casually casual.
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Posted byTheAnuharton Apr 22, 2014, 11:29:47 AM
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