A reminder to GGG to never fall for the 'SFL' trap

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LSN wrote:

I like to buy/use the items that I want to use and not what RNG generously gives me after a while. Either you want RNG to give you everything after a while (= you are a noob) or you want to be just relying on pure RNG luck and nothing else. You need to understand that it is either one of these 2 things. Tell me yourself of which kind you are.

A SFL would do nothing else than equalize everyone to the same lvl on the long run. If this is not about wealth, what else is this about? Every extremely rich player I know plays the game alot and either has 10+ lvl85 chars or at least 1 lvl 100 one.

For myself, I want a multitude of logical builds to have viability with the gear you find as you progress. To actually achieve this would require a rebalancing of skills, the passive tree, RNG layering in itemization, uniques, and monster mechanics; so it's never going to happen. This game has all the pieces to make a very rewarding play (read play, not trade) experience, they're just put together badly by design, in part, to force trade. A SFL would at least be a step towards culling some of the BS that shroud the games potential. I really doubt it would be enough, but it would at least be better than the current situation.

Sad thing is, if modders could have a go at this game for a few months, you'd likely see something far more enjoyable and replayable, due to the sheer number of newly viable builds that wouldn't have mandatory uniques to attempt them. The problems aren't that hard to identify.

@temper: What are you even talking about? D2 was programmed with whatever in mind (big boobs probably?). It was staying alive as long as it did cause of the trading for sure (and only for that reason).


Well in the end idc, you shall have your sfl. If GGG finds a a way to merge it into standard later on again things will be kinda alright. A SFL is interesting for some players, that is what should be taken into consideration. I am quite sure it would be dead in 6 months to 1 year from now and then must merged into standard again and therefore makes no sense from the business point of view as it meanwhiles reduces the appeal of other leagues only.

A much better approach would be to make selffound only charackters in the normal leagues. This is what I vote for. A char marked as selffound cant trade or pickup stuff that dropped for others in areas and should have some kind of proud sign in front of his name. This would work out well without damaging PoE in general.

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LSN wrote:

Now explain me if its not about wealth, jelousy and instead making everyone equal in a SFL, what else is it about?

Noone will be able to give an honest answer, because you know that I am right. Weak ppl go to D3 to play selffound. All other stand capitalism with all its benefits and disadvantages. I do myself too and am not afraid of it in opposite to you.

I will give you a honest answer... I will make it very simple too, so even you would be able to get a vague idea of what I mean.

A SFL league would be ruled by the same omnipresent and disastrous RNG, so there will always be players who would be better off than some others, but at least there would not be a single wallet warrior aboard... people would farm for their own benefit and improvement while actually playing the game as I supposed it was meant to be at the time I joined it.

There would be no one getting richer thanks to someone else sweat and any single item in store would have been deserved by getting your hands dirty to acquire it.

On a side note: I have stopped funding GGG as their last development efforts were of no interest to me... I'm not part of the small % of folks who will encounter Atziri anytime soon and I have no interest in cutthroat stuff. While I appreciate there are people frolicking on these developments I'll leave it to them to financially show their appreciation.

I will gladly donate again once I notice some developments are oriented in a way that improves my personal enjoyment of this game - the last patches made me feel PoE is less and less a game for me.

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Mordron wrote:

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LSN wrote:

Now explain me if its not about wealth, jelousy and instead making everyone equal in a SFL, what else is it about?

Noone will be able to give an honest answer, because you know that I am right. Weak ppl go to D3 to play selffound. All other stand capitalism with all its benefits and disadvantages. I do myself too and am not afraid of it in opposite to you.

I will give you a honest answer... I will make it very simple too, so even you would be able to get a vague idea of what I mean.

A SFL league would be ruled by the same omnipresent and disastrous RNG, so there will always be players who would be better off than some others, but at least there would not be a single wallet warrior aboard... people would farm for their own benefit and improvement while actually playing the game as I supposed it was meant to be at the time I joined it.

There would be no one getting richer thanks to someone else sweat and any single item in store would have been deserved by getting your hands dirty to acquire it.

On a side note: I have stopped funding GGG as their last development efforts were of no interest to me... I'm not part of the small % of folks who will encounter Atziri anytime soon and I have no interest in cutthroat stuff. While I appreciate there are people frolicking on these developments I'll leave it to them to financially show their appreciation.

I will gladly donate again once I notice some developments are oriented in a way that improves my personal enjoyment of this game - the last patches made me feel PoE is less and less a game for me.

You should not be so selfish, its not your game its GGGs game and they can go in any direction they want.

If you donate on the grounds of getting what you want youre doing it wrong.

If its less and less your game i guess there are many games to choose from you might prefer over POE.

He's not selfish at all, he chose to support this game at a time that he thought that this game was worth supporting. He made that choice based on his own standards, which means he liked the game and it's prospects at that time, he doesn't anymore hence no more money(why the hell would you support something that goes against what you want?).
He's not forcing ggg to do anything, he's providing his oppinion on how the game could become better.
Telling him to keep supporting now is like telling a person to buy something against his will.

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Mordron wrote:

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LSN wrote:

Now explain me if its not about wealth, jelousy and instead making everyone equal in a SFL, what else is it about?

Noone will be able to give an honest answer, because you know that I am right. Weak ppl go to D3 to play selffound. All other stand capitalism with all its benefits and disadvantages. I do myself too and am not afraid of it in opposite to you.

I will give you a honest answer... I will make it very simple too, so even you would be able to get a vague idea of what I mean.

A SFL league would be ruled by the same omnipresent and disastrous RNG, so there will always be players who would be better off than some others, but at least there would not be a single wallet warrior aboard... people would farm for their own benefit and improvement while actually playing the game as I supposed it was meant to be at the time I joined it.

There would be no one getting richer thanks to someone else sweat and any single item in store would have been deserved by getting your hands dirty to acquire it.

On a side note: I have stopped funding GGG as their last development efforts were of no interest to me... I'm not part of the small % of folks who will encounter Atziri anytime soon and I have no interest in cutthroat stuff. While I appreciate there are people frolicking on these developments I'll leave it to them to financially show their appreciation.

I will gladly donate again once I notice some developments are oriented in a way that improves my personal enjoyment of this game - the last patches made me feel PoE is less and less a game for me.

You should not be so selfish, its not your game its GGGs game and they can go in any direction they want.

If you donate on the grounds of getting what you want youre doing it wrong.

If its less and less your game i guess there are many games to choose from you might prefer over POE.

Ya see,that's how it works now Dirk.

Players aren't supporting POE/GGG to get it off its feet and into the market or even backing it for the creators ideals/vision.It's past that stage long ago and succeeded.

They will support it if and when they are interested in the content or the direction of development tickles their fancy.

We're not in beta anymore,the majority of players will spend cash on what's of interest to them,be it custom leagues (coming still?),cut throat,races,high end gated content,low end content,bug fix patches or even stash tabs etc etc etc.

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If you donate on the grounds of getting what you want youre doing it wrong.

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I didn't even say he should

That pretty much means you should support regardless of getting what you want... soo....

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You should not be so selfish, its not your game its GGGs game and they can go in any direction they want.

If you donate on the grounds of getting what you want youre doing it wrong.

If its less and less your game i guess there are many games to choose from you might prefer over POE.

GGG are doing what they want with THEIR game...
I'm doing what I want with MY money.

I'm donating on the grounds of the fun and enjoyment I derive from the game and to put it frankly I haven't cared to play for about a week as I realized I was getting bored of grinding endlessly with little reward to justify the hours/energy spent and how far I was of getting anywhere.

I will prolly pop up here and then to catch the wind and see if things evolve in a direction that would more suit my tastes... but indeed there are plenty of other games around, and GGG should be grateful for you to make such fine and subtle suggestions.

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Mordron wrote:

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You should not be so selfish, its not your game its GGGs game and they can go in any direction they want.

If you donate on the grounds of getting what you want youre doing it wrong.

If its less and less your game i guess there are many games to choose from you might prefer over POE.

GGG are doing what they want with THEIR game...
I'm doing what I want with MY money.

I'm donating on the grounds of the fun and enjoyment I derive from the game and to put it frankly I haven't cared to play for about a week as I realized I was getting bored of grinding endlessly with little reward to justify the hours/energy spent and how far I was of getting anywhere.

I will prolly pop up here and then to catch the wind and see if things evolve in a direction that would more suit my tastes... but indeed there are plenty of other games around, and GGG should be grateful for you to make such fine and subtle suggestions.

Will a SFL make the game better at all?
I argue that it wont!

This is the perfect example of a SFL deceived player. A SFL wont change anything about you grinding endlessly for little reward. Even with increased droprates you will reach a certain level of gear that you can hardly improve at all with finding and crafting.

This is a systematic mechanic of these kind of games that can't be changed.

Anything else would be a league where stuff drops like shit. This would result in everyone having everything after a few months (equalization) which would result in everyone being bored as well (even then nothing can drop or be crafted as you have everything and you would turn your back to PoE anyway).

Trading is in the game to spice things up while grinding. You can find stuff that you can sell and on the other hand buy stuff that you actually want but that does not drop.

NO MATTER HOW GOOD DROPRATES ARE YOU WILL REACH THE LVL WHERE YOU CAN HARDLY FIND ANY IMPROVEMENTS (OR CRAFT THEM) AND THEREFORE GET BORED. If you don't enjoy grinding to 100 or rerolling or maximizing your items from 98 to 100% no SFL can ever help you. A SFL in this case just serves the purpose of making things easier for you. Finding soultaker after a week and facerolling everything with kaoms + shavs after two weeks. All the things you can barely get in normal leagues. This in no way can be the intension of a SFL (what creator of topic already stated).


A SFL will stay boring grinding. This is why trading is in the game cause a mix of everything makes the game, not just grinding. Some grinding, some crafting, some trading.

You don't think that if exalts drop every day and once you have crafted your stuff on all slots that it will make any sense to grind more for more exalts to just use them and see tham failing to improve you further, do you?