I'm Unhappy I Put As Much Money As I Did In This Game

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Fourist wrote:

The majority of the things I am not a fan of align with a lot of what has been said and deal more with core design than a specific skill or the most recent patch.

<snip>

I hope they dedicate more time to improving under-utilized skills and nodes and less time nerfing the things people enjoy.

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Fourist wrote:

This may sound trite to most but honestly the thing that bugs me the most is the amount of attention give to places like reddit from Chris and the dev team while the homepage and forums where a majority of major supporters go get less and sometimes no information.

<snip>

Overall the communication from the dev's is better than most games I have played. I still think they are lacking focus on the community of these boards.

Not sure what your feedback is-- you start off going one direction then loop back and say the opposite. You don't have a problem with specific skills but GGG should spend more time balancing specific skills. You don't like how GGG communicates but GGG communicates well. Well... which is it? One thing that might help GGG is if the feedback they got had a clearer message.

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Druga1757 wrote:

It's funny when Chris said in his Athene interview they want to attract more (new) players.

Oneshot bosses, an orb with no information available about it without metagaming (, and a ton of new mechanics that are just as RNG as the rest of the game is the best way to attract new players.

Right....?

I mean honestly, they cant even fucking change the Vaal Orb description from
"Corrupts an item, modifying it unpredictably"
to
"Corrupts an item, modifying it in unpredictable and sometimes detrimental ways"?

It's like they WANT new players to get so frustrated that they either leave or resort to metagaming, maybe in an attempt to form a community that only contains people with high levels of game experience?

I don't think it's even possible to have the intended gameplay experience for path of exile, unless GGG does not want players to play this game blind. If they DO intend for an "a

New players don't have the knowledge that GGG wants them to have and has designed the game around.
Old players have twink items that totally faceroll most of the game.
Old players are in the (correct) mindset that hoarding orbs is the best option most of the time.
Old players know how cheap twink gear is and will save their first few chaos orbs for items like Goldrim.
Old players can bypass all of these by playing solo self found and attempting to force themselves to use orbs in the way an average player would... but they've played the game before so it's not an "Average run", it's a reroll or a new difficulty.

An average run should be considered blind outside of what is told to you in game.
Even a tutorial about how recipes work and telling players to experiment, something that is pathetically easy, would be a massive improvement to the first time playing.

But no, GGG is insistent on forcing you to choose between metagaming and not having the optimal gameplay experience. This decision usually gets made subconsciously as GGG should know an average player WILL NOT, i repeat, WILL NOT go to meticulous efforts to determine what the recipes are for the things the vendor is offering in the trade window unless something indicates to them "Hey, these are really important for progressing!"

I'd just like to say that unlike the OP, I'm still quite happy that I put as much money as I did into the game. I've been enjoying the new expansion at least as much if not more than I've enjoyed PoE at any point in the past.

So far, I've been playing solo self-found in Ambush. I might try trading or teaming up with someone a bit at some point, but I don't tend to trade much in general. I don't understand why the OP says he has such problems finding good gear. Maybe his standards are just way way higher than mine. I find really cool stuff all the time, and the strongboxes in Ambush have meant that I've been accumulating wealth much more quickly than in the past, and so to the contrary, I actually feel really rich compared with my past experiences. I know in absolute terms that there's much better gear: one of my wands, one of my rings, my amulet and my belt are all blue, and my boots (in merciless) are rare Steel Greaves! (They have 70 life, 25 move speed, two okay resists and rarity though, so I can't really complain so much.) Behold:

:D

Since I'm playing softcore, I haven't cared much about dying, so I've done almost no grinding to this point, with the exception of a dozen or so ledge runs for fun. I feel like a lot of it is about mindset. If you watch streamers who play 16 hours a day, of course they're going to have really cool stuff, and if you don't play quite as much, or trade as effectively as they do (which you probably can't without streaming yourself), when you compare your items to theirs, it's probably going to be a little depressing.

The new corrupted areas are exactly the sort of thing that the levelling process needed in my opinion, something to add more variation and break things up from time to time. I've suggested before that maps open up at a lower level prior to endgame. This is rather similar to that, and does exactly the job I'd hoped it would. The new bosses are generally really interesting and fun as well. The times I've been killed by them have generally been really amusing, to the point where I didn't mind so much. There have been some really intense fights that were quite memorable too. I fought the snake boss who makes hundreds of ghostly duplicates of himself in a corrupted area with temporal chains, and it was really tense. I obviously would not have even attempted it in hardcore.

Strongboxes have some issues, but they're also really fun to the point where I don't care about dying. I've died instantaneously multiple times before I could react, which is a bit of an issue, but I don't really sweat it so much in a softcore league. I think maybe there's a bit of a technical issue. It seems like occasionally, it will take a moment for my client to react to clicking a strongbox, where presumably there's a bit of a lag spike, or it's taking time to receive data from the server about new monster locations, and those times are often the most dangerous ones where I lose most of my life instantaneously when the monsters appear. (This seems especially true with monsters that have high attack speed, like monkeys or spiders.)

Another side effect of strongboxes is that I think I've already fought more Rogue Exiles in Ambush than I ever did in the previous leagues. This is lots of good fun, and the loot from it is also generally pretty interesting (often more interesting than the strongbox itself).

If I was playing Invasion (which I probably will do at some point once I'm happy with my first Ambush character), I can imagine being a bit more frustrated by the nature of some of the deaths which are possible to the new bosses, but I've always loved old roguelikes where you die almost every time you sit down to play the game and you rarely get anywhere near the end, so we'll see. :)

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Xendran wrote:

The biggest problem this game has is "Wannabe Hardcore" syndrome.
It wants to be the most hardcore of the hardestcore hardcore games that ever hardcored. In doing so, the game loses most of its true hardcore appeal.

I also just realized right now what might be causing a lot of problems, and its something i didn't think about before: They are balancing normal and cruel, as well as item progression, based on people who already know how to play the game.

An actual "average player" is somebody with average gaming skill and intent playing through the game the first time. When i see GGG refer to "average gamer", they are likely meaning "a person with average gaming skill that knows the game already", not "a person with average skill having an average playthrough".

The most important thing that is missing is a Recipe Book that can have recipes added to it as you discover them, and potentially ones unlocked by an NPC. This way players with no info actually know how to do a recipe after they've discovered it. This also adds another sense of progression, because you want to unlock all the other recipes to see if they are useufl. This will also encourage average players to mess around with the vendor.

For example, are you honestly proud of the fact that players have to come to the forums to get so much information? If we had a recipe book some things that only more seasoned players know to do would come naturally from the game without being told to do it.

Best possible example: Chromatic Recipe.
If somebody sees that they get a chromatic from a sale, they are not really THAT likely to individually take off every item and figure out what is giving them it, and if its a 4L or 5L they may not understand that it's the linked RGB causing it.

Add in the recipe book feature, and suddenly all these players are realizing that recipe and how useful it can be, and will start searching ground and vendors for chromatic items, which will also incidentally lead to some potential 6S and 5L items from the vendors which can generate a bit of extra currency as well as smoothing out progression.

It seems GGG doesn't actually know HOW to make players learn things without either telling them, or making it so secretive that they have to look it up.

Path of Exile is balanced and designed under the mindset that every single player is a metagamer.

I'm wary of using words like forcing. But I will agree, to have an optimal experience, you have to play optimally. I don't have a problem with that, really, it fits with a "risk/reward" approach. My problem is it seems that they made that optimal experience to the exclusion of a rewarding "average" experience. To have an average experience, you have to lower your expectations to what many in this thread, i expect, would call an unrewarding experience. And these are all vets. For a new average player, I can't see it being an entertaining game at all.

And to hear it from others who ARE playing optimally at the highest levels, even some of them don't feel the risk is worth the reward (invasion unique bosses, mapping, etc.)

I like that idea of a recipe book, but to me, the true test would be somehow teaching a new player the metagame of tradecore and rng overcome by time played. As it stands, new players have to find that out the hard way, trial by fire, so to speak, and it's a way that to me would turn off more prospective players than turn them into hardcore players.

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MesostelZe wrote:

Spoiler

I'd just like to say that unlike the OP, I'm still quite happy that I put as much money as I did into the game. I've been enjoying the new expansion at least as much if not more than I've enjoyed PoE at any point in the past.

So far, I've been playing solo self-found in Ambush. I might try trading or teaming up with someone a bit at some point, but I don't tend to trade much in general. I don't understand why the OP says he has such problems finding good gear. Maybe his standards are just way way higher than mine. I find really cool stuff all the time, and the strongboxes in Ambush have meant that I've been accumulating wealth much more quickly than in the past, and so to the contrary, I actually feel really rich compared with my past experiences. I know in absolute terms that there's much better gear: one of my wands, one of my rings, my amulet and my belt are all blue, and my boots (in merciless) are rare Steel Greaves! (They have 70 life, 25 move speed, two okay resists and rarity though, so I can't really complain so much.) Behold:

:D

Since I'm playing softcore, I haven't cared much about dying, so I've done almost no grinding to this point, with the exception of a dozen or so ledge runs for fun. I feel like a lot of it is about mindset. If you watch streamers who play 16 hours a day, of course they're going to have really cool stuff, and if you don't play quite as much, or trade as effectively as they do (which you probably can't without streaming yourself), when you compare your items to theirs, it's probably going to be a little depressing.

The new corrupted areas are exactly the sort of thing that the levelling process needed in my opinion, something to add more variation and break things up from time to time. I've suggested before that maps open up at a lower level prior to endgame. This is rather similar to that, and does exactly the job I'd hoped it would. The new bosses are generally really interesting and fun as well. The times I've been killed by them have generally been really amusing, to the point where I didn't mind so much.

Strongboxes have some issues, but they're also really fun to the point where I don't care about dying. I've died instantaneously multiple times before I could react, which is a bit of an issue, but I don't really sweat it so much in a softcore league. I think maybe there's a bit of a technical issue. It seems like occasionally, it will take a moment for my client to react to clicking a strongbox, where presumably there's a bit of a lag spike, or it's taking time to receive data from the server about new monster locations, and those times are often the most dangerous ones where I lose most of my life instantaneously when the monsters appear. (This seems especially true with monsters that have high attack speed, like monkeys or spiders.)

If I was playing Invasion (which I probably will do at some point once I'm happy with my first Ambush character), I can imagine being a bit more frustrated by the nature of some of the deaths which are possible to the new bosses, but I've always loved old roguelikes where you die almost every time you sit down to play the game and you rarely get anywhere near the end, so we'll see. :)

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out post. Congratulations. You win the thread!

Just checked my Invasion character - 2 vaal orbs found in 19h of solo gameplay. One every 9,5h.

How sad is that?

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Odoakar wrote:

Just checked my Invasion character - 2 vaal orbs found in 19h of solo gameplay. One every 9,5h.

How sad is that?

It seems a bit low. I've found 6 so far in 35 hours, which is one every 5.8 hours, but most of those have been recent, apart from one which dropped for me in Normal Twilight Strand. You're in Invasion rather than Ambush though, so you don't have the benefit of Arcanist's Strongboxes.

They seem similar in rarity to Chaos Orb drops, but maybe they're weighted a bit toward the endgame? I think I probably had only one or two when I was around 19 hours as well.

What I haven't found yet is anything I'd actually risk using them on, so I still have them all. They seem more likely to be useful toward the endgame than near the beginning, given that they're not a guaranteed improvement and you give up your ability to modify the item further (especially chromatically), so I haven't minded not finding many in the early stages.

I was lucky enough to have a Tabula Rasa drop, which would be a worthy target, but I don't want to risk ruining it just yet.

That was an amazing feedback thread with no derailing, and I really feel grateful for the amazing read.

I feel the core of the discontent comes from PoE's game aspects with ARPG properties vs MMO properties.

Without a doubt what pulled, still pulls to and keeps people in PoE are the ARPG aspects of the game. And much discontent arises from MMO aspects, or the neglect/damage of ARPG aspects for the sake of MMO aspects.

PoE is on thin ice when it comes to balancing, as most balancing will have to priorize MMO aspects of the game, which probably majority of the players do not find important. A major improvement in MMO aspects will always be undermined in the players' eyes if the there is even the slightest cost to ARPG aspects.

GGG seems to made a tough decision by trying to make an MMO with ARPG elements, as most people judge the game with only ARPG googles. As a natural result such people will always feel cheated as they mistook the game for what it was never intented to be in the first place. This maybe means those people are not target market in the first place.

I hope GGG manage to develop *OPTIONS* that will allow people to choose their experience in PoE, rather than pulling the game one way or the other. Because pleasing everyone with ONE definite way is impossible, even in a small niche community. But pleasing everyone with options is way more easier.

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Xavderion wrote:

Good feedback.

What I don't understand though, why do you feel your money is wasted? You probably have a couple of hundred hours of play time, wasn't that worth your money?

There's people with hundreds, if not thousands of hours in many games such as super meat boy, dark souls and Torchlight 2 to name a few. All of which were one off payments. What makes 'hundreds' of hours in PoE worth so much more ?

For all the donations and additions of content. PoE still plays like a spreadsheet. No outplay no skill. Just stack numbers against mob numbers and let attrition do the rest.

How many actually good AAA titles could the OP have bought with the money he spent on PoE forum badges ?

I feel a bit bad that I have to use this item and build around it to enjoy endgame content just because I know I will never have a 5L or a 6L. The Fusing RNG game is just such bullcrap. Keep it on Jewellers if you want, at least they're cheap, but there's nothing more discouraging than having a 4L and going for a 5L (which you pretty much need for endgame) and then going back to having 2 random links.

I get that GGG loves RNG because they think that steady progression leads to a treadmill-like feeling, but there's a such thing as RNG gone too far. For example, I have Exas and Divines and multiple useful uniques, but I still have never seen a single Ruby Flask drop.