What builds are actually better off not starting from the Scion?

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I have to imagine that most CI Crit builds would be better off starting as a Shadow or Witch than Scion.

I don't have much experience with Witch, but having done both a CI crit caster and CI crit claw reave build with Shadow, starting with Scion seems like a huge waste of nodes getting to the good Crit nodes.

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tinko92 wrote:

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Invalesco wrote:

I don't get what you mean. The build I just linked above was the exact same build as yours, except with some superiorities at end game. my concern is not about the starting nodes. It's abt the end game. As you said, you didn't care about races. Neither do I, so why bother with the starting nodes?

Sure, make any end game witch/shadow life based caster build. I'll show u a scion version that's better.

The thread name is about starting position? And starting position has nothing to do with end game, as you can reach Scion starting position with any other character.

Can't give you any end game caster build, I've never played one.

But I've answered to your thread question and provided that melee builds aren't better by starting with Scion, and getting back at the first 2 sentences in this post, I don't know why would it be different for any other build, as you can eventually get those Scion nodes.

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kasub wrote:

Well spectral throw is just inferior when starting at scion(due to worse starting nodes). There is the maur version and ranger version.

Most cast on crit builds never go near scion and focus mostly on ranger/shadow area as well.

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ZoRoXo wrote:

Now, add in the fact that Scion gets every single gem you need. Especially the all popular Reduced mana gem and it's pretty clear what class I will be using.

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sidtherat wrote:

ill chime in and point out one thing:

for MoM+EB_AA build 20% mana regen is HUGE. for a Cloak of Defiance build (no MoM keystone) Scion is a clear winner for easy access to both 8life/6mana circles and incredibly powerful 40%regen+8/8/8mana+40%regen-1%liferegen path. easy accessible ~+20all resists are also very important if you rely on uniques without resists themselves.

scion only 'weakness' is the start, when she has to take end-game nodes to branch out (40% mana regen vs 80% early game is nothing. end game it is do or die difference. fortunately early game you can get to merveil without picking any nodes and with blue gear so it is not a problem

for a normal class: you get good nodes at start, filler in the middle and cherry-pick good stuff at the end

for scion: you get filler at the beginning and then only cherrypick good stuff. that ofc is a stretch because it is difficult to name 40/1% regen node a 'filler', same goes for the oposite node with cast/attack/move speed that lies on the way to juicy aura/trap passives

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sidtherat wrote:

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ZoRoXo wrote:

Now, add in the fact that Scion gets every single gem you need. Especially the all popular Reduced mana gem and it's pretty clear what class I will be using.

this is another issue worth mentioning

up to now Templar was the best one to get the 'utility' stuff but Scion simply rocks in quest-gems department. for a long time players it makes 0 difference, but for 1week it might be reason why so many take scion

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Invalesco wrote:

Well done on completely missing the point of this thread and manipulating the issue to save face -_-

You didn't answer my thread question. Read the op again please.

Nope, try making a shadow caster and getting shaper and harrier. Or a witch caster and having to go to shadow and grabbing trying to grab shaper. But as you've said, you don't do end game caster builds so idk why u even bothered posting in this thread at all, seemingly just to provide mon-constructive opposition.