The key to understanding PoE may be that is it not made for the same players as Diablo 2

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vaskov17 wrote:
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Xavderion wrote:
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vaskov17 wrote:
Diablo 2 was NOT designed around trading, that's why it was so good and that is what GGG and Blizzard do not understand. At their core Diablo and PoE are loot hunting games not trading games. Anyone who played Diablo, early Diablo 2, Darkstone, etc. knows this.


You couldn't be more wrong imo. Trading for massively duped and botted items made end-game builds achievable in the first place. Without trading you were fucked.


Notice how I said 'early Diablo 2'. In later patches trading, duping, RMT were prevalent and that ruined the game in my opinion. Later patches are also the reason why PoE and D3 were designed with trading being so big in acquiring items. D3 tried the auction house/RMT and realized it's not the way to go so they are changing, PoE is about 18 months behind so next year the same realization will be made by GGG. The only hope is that they have enough of a player base left to fund the changes.


You couldn't be more wrong. D3 didn't even really have trading in it. An auction house isn't trading. Just like when you go to the grocery story and purchase food with money it isn't trading.

D3 wasn't wrong to add an auction house. They just didn't realize how much it would shorten their game. They are going to find out that they are extremely wrong to remove trading. They will remove the players that stuck around because they enjoyed the auction house, and they will only gain casual players who wont stick around more than 100 hours.
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vaskov17 wrote:
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Xavderion wrote:
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vaskov17 wrote:
Diablo 2 was NOT designed around trading, that's why it was so good and that is what GGG and Blizzard do not understand. At their core Diablo and PoE are loot hunting games not trading games. Anyone who played Diablo, early Diablo 2, Darkstone, etc. knows this.


You couldn't be more wrong imo. Trading for massively duped and botted items made end-game builds achievable in the first place. Without trading you were fucked.


Notice how I said 'early Diablo 2'. In later patches trading, duping, RMT were prevalent and that ruined the game in my opinion. Later patches are also the reason why PoE and D3 were designed with trading being so big in acquiring items. D3 tried the auction house/RMT and realized it's not the way to go so they are changing, PoE is about 18 months behind so next year the same realization will be made by GGG. The only hope is that they have enough of a player base left to fund the changes.


Then try to remember how D2 was without trading. It had worse drop-rates than PoE afair. It was just a lot easier to progress through the game because D2 isn't such a huge gearcheck as PoE.
I'm a bigendered omnisexual fem-presenting fat-positive catkin, be nice :)
Funny thread this is, normally typing forums makes me want to play the game less/feel more hopeless, but this particular thread has the opposite effect. Makes me want to play even more.

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Tzaina wrote:
Level 85 / 82 / 78 in Nemesis, Full time jobb, wife and a baby on the way.


Yet i manage to find time.


Weird world we´re living in. Random dull people belives they got less time then others.

Afaik, you are given 24h at the start of the day like everyone else. Appart from some variables that will gibb you, you still got enought time to play computer games.


/endthread


No one said anyone has more time than anyone else, it was only talked about how people priotize their time!

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majesw wrote:
D3 didn't even really have trading in it. An auction house isn't trading.



Hahaha, good one!
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Last edited by Crackmonster on January 24, 2014 7:19 PM
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majesw wrote:

You couldn't be more wrong. D3 didn't even really have trading in it. An auction house isn't trading. Just like when you go to the grocery story and purchase food with money it isn't trading.

D3 wasn't wrong to add an auction house. They just didn't realize how much it would shorten their game. They are going to find out that they are extremely wrong to remove trading. They will remove the players that stuck around because they enjoyed the auction house, and they will only gain casual players who wont stick around more than 100 hours.


First, please look up the definition of 'trading'.

Second, GGG has a better 'trading' system in the works which presumably will make it easier to trade. How would they avoid the 'shorten their game' pitfall when it's even easier to acquire items?
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Xavderion wrote:

Then try to remember how D2 was without trading. It had worse drop-rates than PoE afair. It was just a lot easier to progress through the game because D2 isn't such a huge gearcheck as PoE.


I do remember, because I've never traded in D2. For me it was a strictly solo or LAN experience.

The problem is most people (including developers) do not remember what made this game genre so popular. It was the addicting gameplay and the exciting of finding items and the possibility of surprise, not the excitement of buying items where you know exactly what you are getting which kills much of the excitement/surprise factor.
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majesw wrote:
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vaskov17 wrote:
Diablo 2 was NOT designed around trading, that's why it was so good and that is what GGG and Blizzard do not understand. At their core Diablo and PoE are loot hunting games not trading games. Anyone who played Diablo, early Diablo 2, Darkstone, etc. knows this.


I am sorry, but D2 was very much designed with trading in mind. I still have yet to find someone who can prove otherwise.



to be honest , I do not believe that to be true. It is more like a feature they added as part of the larger multi-player component.
It was as much an untested mechanic as the rest of battle.net was in those days

(and b.net was brand spanking new back then).

sure it existed and you could trade , but it was only slightly more refined than the concept of two players dropping their items on opposite sides of a screen and then picking up each others items .

No the focus during that time was still squarely on being loot driven and getting most of your gear via monsters.


trading only became more important as the community evolved over the many years. a community that sprouted ironically to make up for the many short comings of diablo's trade system.

this is why a huge part of d2s trades take place on d2 jsp and outside forums and the like.
YAY fixed my damn lag , I can play again!
I think it is also important to understand that perfect or near-perfect rares are equivalent to the Tyrael's Might's of PoE.

Those are the things you will never ever ever come close to finding yourself, or crafting without flipping items.

Uniques are not the far far end game in PoE.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
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vaskov17 wrote:


First, please look up the definition of 'trading'.

Second, GGG has a better 'trading' system in the works which presumably will make it easier to trade. How would they avoid the 'shorten their game' pitfall when it's even easier to acquire items?


I think I clarified my feelings on 'trading' adequately in my previous post. If you feel that an auction house as middle man who takes a cut is the same as exchanging items then that's up to you. I don't feel that it is...

As for your second point it's not going to be a system where you can type in the perfect item stats and immediately get 100 results, buying the cheapest option. It's just going to make it easier to contact people whose goods you have interest in. I think equating the two systems is foolhardy.
Last edited by majesw on January 24, 2014 7:29 PM
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majesw wrote:
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vaskov17 wrote:


First, please look up the definition of 'trading'.

Second, GGG has a better 'trading' system in the works which presumably will make it easier to trade. How would they avoid the 'shorten their game' pitfall when it's even easier to acquire items?


I think I clarified my feelings on 'trading' adequately in my previous post. If you feel that an auction house as middle man who takes a cut is the same as exchanging items then that's up to you. I don't feel that it is...


Then you are wrong beyond opinion.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
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to be honest , I do not believe that to be true. It is more like a feature they added as part of the larger multi-player component.
It was as much an untested mechanic as the rest of battle.net was in those days

(and b.net was brand spanking new back then).

sure it existed and you could trade , but it was only slightly more refined than the concept of two players dropping their items on opposite sides of a screen and then picking up each others items .

No the focus during that time was still squarely on being loot driven and getting most of your gear via monsters.


trading only became more important as the community evolved over the many years. a community that sprouted ironically to make up for the many short comings of diablo's trade system.

this is why a huge part of d2s trades take place on d2 jsp and outside forums and the like.


Yet trading was in the game from the start. You don't think it crossed the developer's minds at all?

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