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PureLaine wrote:
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Thorien_Kell wrote:
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PureLaine wrote:
Biased and misleading poll not showing the 2 sides of the medal. Your stats are broken already.
You are surprised with the results and thinking in negating all will make you feel better or is it impartial reasoning we see here?
I'm not strong SFL fanatic, I would like it but that's all. I was surprised with results as much as anyone.
All I did is tried to determine are people in generally interested in such thing, I was curious honestly - offering answer range from yes i care deeply to no it's stupid idea. And results show that people (seemingly and surprisingly) really care.
Im not surprised at all. Who wouldnt want to be rich?
You want people to vote on that fact alone. Thus, the reason your poll is biased. It is a populist idea that isnt rational at all longevitywise and replayabilitywise that will push people to boredom faster. Yes, that is what SFL is striving for.
Good that it doesnt have to do anything with reality. But hey, google few free korean MMOs, you will find a lot of replayability there and need to farm for 10k hours, you will love it
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Posted bymiljan#1261on Dec 5, 2013, 4:31:41 PM
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PureLaine wrote:
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Thorien_Kell wrote:
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PureLaine wrote:
Biased and misleading poll not showing the 2 sides of the medal. Your stats are broken already.
You are surprised with the results and thinking in negating all will make you feel better or is it impartial reasoning we see here?
I'm not strong SFL fanatic, I would like it but that's all. I was surprised with results as much as anyone.
All I did is tried to determine are people in generally interested in such thing, I was curious honestly - offering answer range from yes i care deeply to no it's stupid idea. And results show that people (seemingly and surprisingly) really care.
Im not surprised at all. Who wouldnt want to be rich?
You want people to vote on that fact alone. Thus, the reason your poll is biased. It is a populist idea that isnt rational at all longevitywise and replayabilitywise that will push people to boredom faster. Yes, that is what SFL is striving for.
The bit about longevity and replayability is not indicative of everyone.
I don't like this poll (I voted early and I voted D) due to what sort of SFL it describes (instanced loot garbage, *spit*), but I would still desperately like some form of SFL.
I've had probably 20+ endgame characters in various HC leagues, about half of them self found.
Do you know pushes me to boredom faster than anything else, repeatedly, in this game? A combination of ending up trading (and I don't even bother with forum trade) and poor end game accessibility.
I would happily reroll continuously in a SFL assuming it at least has something going for it over the standard leagues (given it's not just increased drop rates, something closer to randomized dungeons/areas, descent-like, whatever).
If I can stop myself from trading, I tend to play longer and enjoy it more.
Additionally, I can tell you this, you will never find me in standard, you will never find me in hardcore and you won't find me in either nemesis or domination.
So much for replayability and longevity, you can also include no economic interaction.
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Posted byDeletedon Dec 5, 2013, 4:34:18 PM
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PureLaine wrote:
Im not surprised at all. Who wouldnt want to be rich?
You want people to vote on that fact alone. Thus, the reason your poll is biased. It is a populist idea that isnt rational at all longevitywise and replayabilitywise that will push people to boredom faster. Yes, that is what SFL is striving for.
Respectfully, very much people /me included/ id disagreeing with you.
If in this SFL players would indeed be more richer and game would be more easy then it is now I would be first against it! Strongly.
Lets not get in to much of debate, I need you to concentrate in two important things and disregard all rest. If you do you will realize idea and motivations SFL league endorsers have;
IDEA 1
Right now we do not play game to find better gear but orbs, they are all that matter. 95% of our (good) gear is bought and we grind for currency, orbs, that is our dayjob. All those items that fall are 99,999% totally useless. Unless we sell them. So we play to get rewarded by gold, not by gear.
IDEA 2
Right now we have very ingenious crafting system that we cannot afford to use. Because it's stupid and economically unjustified to make our own gear.
We want those two annoying facts remedied and game to stay roughly at same difficulty, or even to get little bit tougher, we don't mind. There are many people playing that clumsy tedious self found, in spartan manner, having game much more difficult and you really think that people like that want to get rich fast? No - we want to play more and buy less. Right now I don't get excited when I see nice sword dropping because I know that I can found much better one on poe xyz very easily. It's stupid system. IMO. It can be improved.
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Last edited by Thorien_Kell#5909 on Dec 5, 2013, 4:36:07 PM
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Posted byThorien_Kell#5909on Dec 5, 2013, 4:34:20 PM
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Thorien_Kell wrote:
Respectfully, very much people /me included/ id disagreeing with you.
If in this SFL players would indeed be more richer and game would be more easy then it is now I would be first against it! Strongly.
Lets not get in to much of debate, I need you to concentrate in two important things and disregard all rest. If you do you will realize idea and motivations SFL league endorsers have;
IDEA 1
Right now we do not play game to find better gear but orbs, they are all that matter. 95% of our (good) gear is bought and we grind for currency, orbs, that is our dayjob. All those items that fall are 99,999% totally useless. Unless we sell them. So we play to get rewarded by gold, not by gear.
IDEA 2
Right now we have very ingenious crafting system that we cannot afford to use. Because it's stupid and economically unjustified to make our own gear.
We want those two annoying facts remedied and game to stay roughly at same difficulty, or even to get little bit tougher, we don't mind. There are many people playing that clumsy tedious self found, in spartan manner, having game much more difficult and you really think that people like that want to get rich fast? No - we want to play more and buy less. Right now I don't get excited when I see nice sword dropping because I know that I can found much better one on poe xyz very easily. It's stupid system. IMO. It can be improved.
See? It took you 47 pages later to come out with a well cooked argument. Problem with your argument is that you think you speak for everyone when it's not the case. Because most of them want to compete with the no lifers. That won't happen in the best world.
SFL aside, would'nt it be better to keep analizing and discussing the crafting system? Maybe SFL is only a symptom of a bad designed crafting system, maybe a sympton of a jealous crowd.
And that, mate, it's what makes it harder for GGG to fix it when people are not being thoughtful on what they ask for.
Last edited by PureLaine#3024 on Dec 5, 2013, 4:50:06 PM
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Posted byPureLaine#3024on Dec 5, 2013, 4:46:46 PM
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PureLaine wrote:
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Thorien_Kell wrote:
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PureLaine wrote:
Biased and misleading poll not showing the 2 sides of the medal. Your stats are broken already.
You are surprised with the results and thinking in negating all will make you feel better or is it impartial reasoning we see here?
I'm not strong SFL fanatic, I would like it but that's all. I was surprised with results as much as anyone.
All I did is tried to determine are people in generally interested in such thing, I was curious honestly - offering answer range from yes i care deeply to no it's stupid idea. And results show that people (seemingly and surprisingly) really care.
Im not surprised at all. Who wouldnt want to be rich?
You want people to vote on that fact alone. Thus, the reason your poll is biased. It is a populist idea that isnt rational at all longevitywise and replayabilitywise that will push people to boredom faster. Yes, that is what SFL is striving for.
You should check out http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies
It has an extensive list of fallacious argument types.
Allow me to categorize yours:
"Who wouldn't want to be rich? You want people to vote on that fact alone."
That is an appeal to ridicule: you have presented the opponents argument in a way that makes it seem absurd. We weren't voting on wanting to be rich.
It is also a Circumstance ad Hominem: Stating a claim isn't credible only because of the advocate's interests in their claim.
"It is a populist idea that isn't rational at all"
Here you do guilt by association: discrediting an idea or claim by associating it with an undesirable person or group. "populist"
"will push people to boredom faster."
Unfortunately I can't find any rhetological fallacies here because you don't even argue this point you just state it as a forgone conclusion.
Maybe it's an appeal to ignorance: A claim is true simply because it has not been proven false.
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PureLaine wrote:
Im not surprised at all. Who wouldnt want to be rich?
You want people to vote on that fact alone. Thus, the reason your poll is biased. It is a populist idea that isnt rational at all longevitywise and replayabilitywise that will push people to boredom faster. Yes, that is what SFL is striving for.
You nor anyone else knows what drop rates GGG would put in this hypothetical self found league. I don't know where you get off saying that people are going to get richer any faster in a self found league versus the current game. Right this second I can trade for nearly anything I want and have it in maybe 10-30 minutes. Please tell me how I would be richer having to FIND everything myself?
Above all else people in a self found league would be playing the game to earn what I have. Achieving everything by trading is seriously lame, this is a video game for God's sake. I am baffled to no end by the hate leveled at an idea that is designed to get people to play the damn game to earn their gear instead of trading for it.
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PureLaine wrote:
maybe a sympton of a jealous crowd.
Your posts are a symptom of fallacious arguments and stereotyping. Congratulations.
Standard Forever Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Dec 5, 2013, 5:14:28 PM
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Posted byiamstryker#5952on Dec 5, 2013, 4:49:36 PM
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PugJack wrote:
A!
I would pay the 1k to spin up this league for 6mos
+1000
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Posted byArodian#1870on Dec 5, 2013, 5:04:03 PM
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Thorien_Kell wrote:
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PureLaine wrote:
Im not surprised at all. Who wouldnt want to be rich?
You want people to vote on that fact alone. Thus, the reason your poll is biased. It is a populist idea that isnt rational at all longevitywise and replayabilitywise that will push people to boredom faster. Yes, that is what SFL is striving for.
Respectfully, very much people /me included/ id disagreeing with you.
If in this SFL players would indeed be more richer and game would be more easy then it is now I would be first against it! Strongly.
Lets not get in to much of debate, I need you to concentrate in two important things and disregard all rest. If you do you will realize idea and motivations SFL league endorsers have;
IDEA 1
Right now we do not play game to find better gear but orbs, they are all that matter. 95% of our (good) gear is bought and we grind for currency, orbs, that is our dayjob. All those items that fall are 99,999% totally useless. Unless we sell them. So we play to get rewarded by gold, not by gear.
IDEA 2
Right now we have very ingenious crafting system that we cannot afford to use. Because it's stupid and economically unjustified to make our own gear.
We want those two annoying facts remedied and game to stay roughly at same difficulty, or even to get little bit tougher, we don't mind. There are many people playing that clumsy tedious self found, in spartan manner, having game much more difficult and you really think that people like that want to get rich fast? No - we want to play more and buy less. Right now I don't get excited when I see nice sword dropping because I know that I can found much better one on poe xyz very easily. It's stupid system. IMO. It can be improved.
+1, exactly my thoughts. Before I stopped playing, I started to drop near 400dps 2Hs and near 300 1Hs (both sufficient for endgame) but just didn't derive any enjoyment from them. Why? Because I was swimming in 450+ 2Hs and 300+ 1Hs after 1 week of trading. The trading aspect of the game completely breaks linear progression and the enjoyment that a player derives from that. I don't think I've ever bothered to farm ledge/fellshrine/docks for loot but I farm poe.xyz.is all the time!
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Posted byjayteeez#5825on Dec 5, 2013, 5:16:51 PM
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B
POE 2 hype.
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Posted bythe_truth#0564on Dec 5, 2013, 5:29:21 PM
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di0nix wrote:
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ciknay wrote:
Self found can be played as is in the current leagues
hardcore can't be played in normal leagues?
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ciknay wrote:
and dividing the community further probably isn't a good idea.
hardcore don't divide the community? even on the forums?
When did I ever mention hardcore? I'm talking self found as a whole, not whether the self found leagues will be hardcore or not.
"Minions of your minions are your minion's minions, not your minions." - Mark
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Posted byciknay#1000on Dec 5, 2013, 9:51:52 PM
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