Is co-op too easy?

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wrathmar wrote:

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ifarmpandas wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

No one is auguring if Co-op is easier, we are debating the best way to increase the challenge without creating frustration.

Your lifting analogy does not fit. In real life if you are loading a box of 100 oranges into your car you end up with 100 oranges. If you have 5 friends help you still end up with 100 oranges. The way that the games works now is that it is easier to lift the box plus you gain extra oranges and get stronger when you have more help.

That's a shitty analogy. Not everyone can lift 100 oranges, but everyone can probably lift 20 (about 2 bags or so?). Getting 5 friends means you can now lift the box. Same thing applies to groups.

yep a bad analogy to point out a bad analogy is still a bad analogy. I'll use your analogy because it points out the group balance issue perfectly. One person lifting 100 oranges is a challenge that not everyone can accomplish. If you bring in 5 friends and each only has to lift 20 oranges then everyone can do this with little effort.

GGG included a group difficulty buff because they recognized the additive nature of player damage and multiplicative nature of buffs. My point is that player damage has out passed the monster difficulty buff to the point that Brutis is trivial for a 6 person group.

Roll

A

Harder

Map.

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Lachis wrote:

They are challenged?

I've been trying to tell you the race shows you this much. Ok minor tweaks can be made so that GGG doesn't settle. But it is challenging. Roll harder maps. Get a higher level and do higher level maps. Act 3 isn't even out yet. More maps coming. Go group pvp.

sure sometimes someone die. or the game would be so boring that nobody would like to play it at least me. ok some maps are hard even in groupplay but the difficulti of the content is just way to easy in partys. and the most people die because they think they are op and pulling to much mobs at once. i would like to see more firestorm casting monsters and more magic monsters that some teamplay is required. that there have to be a focus in fights that you have to use diffent movement and technics like icewall placements infront of attacking rohas or goats that you have to try to pull only 2-3 mobs at once to not get killed. that you require skill to play through the content like in speedrace. istead of a 6 people party just spamming spells with no cooldown. some bosses are challanging enough or possible even too hard without very good equip ,like double oak boss maps and so on but i would like to see more difficulti in the content when you walk through the outdoor areas and dungeons . bosses dont have to be made much much stronger but should be able to hit more people at once like brutus with multiple chains like wrathmar suggested.

or if ggg read that make the race league as a default one and a race league for hc too in which get the mobs get more attack and movement speed when you enter the next difficulti.

if not i make my own league and invite everyone in the thread i will open up once i bought it and invite everyone who search for challange XD

Good point. Monster abilities are for sure randomized. It would be nice to see more unique combinations. Like maybe monsters that cast spork spell totems that automatcally kill sporkers :)?

So they should add additional skills and improve the AI to balance groups?

I think that's a good idea. Give skeletons mages arc when facing a group of 4 or more.

I still think that should add a small attack/cast/movement speed buff for each additional player.

Necro-bump. I would like to see how new players feel about co-op balance.

I'm fairly new, started the week before OB. Co-op is definitely a complete cake walk so far.

Right now I only play co-op with my Marauder (I have a solo shadow who's higher) with my Ranger friend using poison arrow/fire trap. We're currently taking a happy stroll through Cruel and neither of us have come even close to dying.

The comment above says it all.

"Been playing for a week and its a cakewalk."

ADDRESS THIS GGG. It ruins an otherwise phenominal game.

i woudl like to see mobs with Null aura :d that disable all nearby players skills :D that shiuld be soooo much hard in pt if u have 3 gold mobs and 1 is null aura :D
for exemple null aura mob +random golden with aura+ gold with immortal aura :D hell yaeh

Yes, running around in a group is FAR too easy.

"People dies in groups" is not an argument against party playing being way easier than solo for most builds/situations (when it does matter) + having additional benefices. Let's ignore the intrinsic benefits of playing in parties, still playing in parties is a big risk mitigation factor: solo/deaths ratio is way higher than party/deaths in a similar amount of time. Do you want proof? Compare past party races vs. solo races and you will see how skewed it is.

I think this is detrimental to the game experience: I would like for party playing to be as (not more) hard than solo play, it's feels more rewarding, challenging and intense (instead of boring steam rolling). Party play still have the advantage of build synergy, aura stacking, etc. If you want the game to be easier try to over-level and over-gear game content (or ask for an 'easy mode' league; personally I find difficulty is at the right spot when soloing).


How to solve this is difficult, I would argue a combination of mob stat boosting + some AI changes. A little 'turbo bonus' for mobs per additional player (allowing faster attacks and casting specially, maybe not movement), buffing HP slightly as well as natural resists (to make stacking CC harder, stunning, freezing, etc.) and changing AI targeting system in party: focus fire in one random player, alpha striking, and swap targets (while still focusing fire) if the player does not die.


I think most people prefer to play in parties (is funnier), bare issues with loot; but having a nice challenge is also enjoyable. In any case I think we always can wait for alternate events or leagues with different rules, or custom leagues when are implemented.