Pillar of the Caged God - Spectral Throw - Knockback Marauder

I did some theory for a PoTCG unique staff build of a high-70's or low 80's level character (Marauder)

Attack speed: lets say 4 frenzy charges, lvl 20 faster attacks, 37% from attack speed passives, 35% from dex (154 from passives, 106 Astramentis, 50 average Lioneye's Paws, 23 Average Abyssus, 20 from a ring or two), -10% from average Deshret's Vise.

Base weapon damage: 26.5 damage, 20% quality, average Abyssus, 2 average-roll high-tier phys damage rings, 1 average Meginord's Girdle.

Increased physical damage: 1397% from str (432 from passives, 106 Astramentis, 100 Deshret's Vise, 50 average Lioneye's Paws, 23 Average Abyssus, 55 averageish/blessed Meginord's Girdle.), 42% from passives, 10% from Deshret's Vise.

MORE damage from skills/supports: 50% Heavy blow (for simplicity sake using heavy blow; and not counting it's 95% IPD), 49% lvl 20 Melee Physical Damage, 39% lvl 20 added fire damage, ~41% lvl 20 Multistrike (factoring in the IPD)

(1+.37+(154+106+50+23+20)/10*.01+4*.05+.44-.1)*(1+(442+106+100+50+23+55)/10*.18+.42+.1)*((26.5*1.2+55+15*2)*1.25)*1.49*1.39*1.41*(1.5)


Results in 22k DPS on a 5-linked with the previously mentioned supports (no blue gems, probably rough to get).
Pretty good if all the numbers work in practice as they do on paper.

One thing I was iffy about is how added fire damage would react; would it still give the full 39% more damage? I'm kinda thinking it doesn't (not sure on the specifics why though), in which case this will be a bit inaccurate.

Also, no added elemental damage auras were used. Hatred would be great for this build and potentially add a load more damage, but as far as I heard, it doesn't work right/well with PotCG, and it will only give the cold damage based on the damage before the IPD is added in (which is where 93% of the damage comes from), making it useless.
I THINK that is entirely normal and intentional functioning of hatred, and an unfortunate problem that this build encounters.
I presume a Ming's heart would perform in a similar fashion (although I don't know how it works).

For those wondering what the chest piece is (why not death's oath? or something), it's lightning coil, just because it seems like it would help mitigate/neutralize Abyssus' additional physical damage taken.

I have not looked into the resistances of the build, and It would guess it'd be very lacking particularly with the -60% lightning resist. Would probably need two high resist topaz/prismatic rings, and of course resist passives and resist quest reward. Should be just barely fine with purity of lightning, all the resist passives, resist quest reward, and prismatic rings (one needs a good lightning resist).

It might very well be screwed vs. chaos damage, since I'm not sure if it would have any chaos resistance at all!

Passives I chose:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEBwQTcPSFVOQ5VtZ7N0iFXDdlhGS4n7ayqcqnUj7nd7w7yL2ebKS5dSSUnxtinMPe-fNm5Q0oup6UB55_LFCBQRzbohynE9sQVWK94DalubEZybDIJtfI1kv6PTeOmVzGebqpKyGSjGlXz3WEhEuGRzrvtWGNQUIzP9khfP0CgnrkFLYTvdO1eExvIQzG2QWqT1e3AD9JNvqdOKimlWhpuaYTZW6_dDTqziq-QEYLkROcc52o7qBh3YoRjYEt67-Txah7QRw==


Edit/Final thoughts:
It seems Deshret's Vise isn't too good for this. Might very well be better of using some nice added phys damage rare gloves, but I haven't done the math. Considering how critical added phys damage is to the build and how weak the benefits of int and dex are, you could very likely be better off with rare boots instead of Lioneye's Paws, and rare added phys damage amulet instead of Astramentis. Probably quite vulnerable to chaos damage, probably has low armor, but should be no big deal considering Lightning Coil.

Here's what I have now:

Build:


Gear:


Stats:

- 655 Strength
- 160 Dexterity

Frenzy DPS:

Pillar Staff: 13,98k
400 DPS Mace: 13,65k (!)
233 DPS Mace: 9.01k (!!)


Pillar:



5L mace (over 400 dps)



Shitty blue mace (233 dps)




Conclusion:
With high-str build, its possible to up pillar DPS to a shitty 2h.
Only viable option is, like OP suggested, to use spectral weapon. Or lightning strike. Because of the high str, which also helps projectiles with iron grip.

It is possible to squeeze more str in the gear. Using abyssus for example. And some on other gear. But not realisticly more than 100-150.


@Xapti:
Yes, Deshret's Vise are not as good as normal gloves with added physical and attack speed. Amulet with added physical is better than astramentis (not tested, but its pretty clear).
Resistances are nearly ok (like 4% cold undercapped).
Hatred does more to the DPS than haste.


Update:
Screenshots and stuff added.

Bump for win.

I made a mistake in my calculations, the phys damage from the rings was a bit high; the max possible damage a phys ring can have is 12 (so I should have used 11, not 15).

Gloves
Anyway, I did the math for Deshret's vs phys damage gloves. For a build with 676 str without Deshret's, and 95% increased attack speed (incl. 4 frenzy charge) adding-in Deshret's gives 8.9% overall more DPS.

With gloves that give 7 added phys damage and 5% increased attack speed, that provides +9.0% overall more DPS.

So rare is definitely the way to go if you can find one. Phys damage alone isn't enough to beat Deshret's, at only +7.4% DPS with a maxed mod, but even with that or less, the gloves are nicer since they could give significant additional defensive stats over Deshret's.
Realize that's only if you have 676 str. The less str you have without Deshret's the better it will be for increasing damage.




For Amulet
If you have 7 phys damage gloves and no Deshret's, and everything else is as mentioned in the previous post:
15 damage phys damage amulet gets stomped by Astramentis (13.0% vs 24.4% more damage). Astramentis gives a good 10-11% attack speed as well as over 180% increased phys damage, which is critical when all that str from Deshret's is missing.



Even with Deshret's things don't change too much
13.8% vs 21.7%; a loss of 7% more damage



Max possible phys damage on amulet:
18.8% increase (vs 21.7% or 24.4%).
I guess if you can get other good mods on the amulet along with this, it's pretty damn good, although not the option for damage-obsessed people.


Amulets can't [normally] give attack speed, so it seems a rare amulet is at quite a disadvantage. Still, for a more defensive build, it's certainly an option, you just lose out on 5% increased AoE and a good 10% more damage (unless you're not running resolute technique in which case an amulet with critical chance/multiplier and/or accuracy could jump WAAY ahead.



(1+20.5/(26.5*1.2+55+11*2))/((1+106/(442+100+50+23+55))*(2.05/1.95))

Summary: builds having trouble with their defense or IIR/IIQ should definitely go with rare gloves and a rare amulet, but otherwise one definitely should at least strongly consider Astramentis (if they can afford it) for additional damage (and AoE), and rare gloves. Although if you're poor Deshret's will give roughly equal offense, just with less defense and IIR/IIQ. If you can manage to get an ilvl 76+ amulet with max phys damage, then this is probably the best option too, since it will creep close to Astramentis' damage, while gaining other —hopefully good— mods as well.

So basically what you guys are saying is that, in terms of lategame power, there really isn't any reason to run Pillar over Facebreakers or a traditional 2H build?

"

Phylaris wrote:

So basically what you guys are saying is that, in terms of lategame power, there really isn't any reason to run Pillar over Facebreakers or a traditional 2H build?

Better than FB? Never.

Traditional 2H build? Depends on the 2h weapon you have available :-). But it will never achieve the raw DPS of endgame 2h's.

But, Spectral Throw / Lightning Strike benefits greatly from the 600+ str. Maybe there's a way to use the synergy (more str = more weapon DPS) with iron grip (str ALSO applies to projectiles). But will it be better than 2h with the STR nodes invested in 2h/projectile/meleephysicaldmage nodes? I doubt it. ALSO, there's a possibility to use the STR for spell damage with iron will (like i did with molten shell).

I'd like to test this with astramentis, but i used up all my currency for regrets and chromatics :-(

imo this weapon is built for glacier hammer multistrike ele pro. Since all the stats screams for it. But frenzy melee splash multistrike sees to work with this weap. Someone just gotta think outside the box a little and it'll be the next most value weap.

I followed this build for a long time, there are some findings:

1. Flat + physical damage is correctly influenced by the (16+2)% damage of pilliar
2. It is different from a facebreaker because facebreaker is a "more damage multiplier", and pillar is an "increased multiplier"
3. Biggest problem with pillar is it can not work with "Iron Grip", "IPD", and "increased projectile damage" (from skills) very well. All those 3 work as an addition of the "+1000% physical damage" that you can get from a pillar.

Hence a lvl 1 ST makes little difference from a lvl 20 ST.

I just started this build today after getting PotCD. I noticed with knockback that spectral throw seemed to hit extra times. By that I mean ST would hit, knock the mob back and then register the mob in a new place and strike again before pushing through and starting is return path for yet another hit. This is what lead me to this thread and I wanted to see if anyone else had the same result. Right now I am working into the int half of temple for the increased crit strike chance. Anyone have the same results with kickback?

"

Kryzen wrote:

I just started this build today after getting PotCD. I noticed with knockback that spectral throw seemed to hit extra times. By that I mean ST would hit, knock the mob back and then register the mob in a new place and strike again before pushing through and starting is return path for yet another hit. This is what lead me to this thread and I wanted to see if anyone else had the same result. Right now I am working into the int half of temple for the increased crit strike chance. Anyone have the same results with kickback?

Kryzen this is because Spectral Throw can hit once every .3 seconds, so many times the projectile will knock things back enough that they are still in the hit range for the next .3 "hit" interval. Or that another ST you did hit it after the initial hit.

As for this thread / my build, I did make it again on standard to stick with my buddies, this time starting as a templar to get to the staff crit circle faster. ST and Heavy Strike have 27.3% crit chance with no support gems, and I have lots of added multiplier as well :D. Only sad part about the build is that it would technically be better to start as marauder (since I hit the marauder health start would save 4-6 points) but I didn't want to put off getting to the crit. Also still working my way over to Iron Reflexes which has been kinda painful (lol). But things are progressing fairly well- I'm level 68 with 2300 health using Pillar, a 6S Astral Plate, Carnage Heart (has been amazing so far), Meginord's Girdle, Lioneye's Paws (could definitely upgrade from these once I get a little more currency tucked away), and rare everything else. I will look over my original pastebin post and make updates and comparisons later.