In the existing forums, there is nothing stopping anyone from self-bumping, and we know many of our players do. We also have players that only rarely bump other players' threads, trolling and flaming occasionally.
So, as you can self-bump in existing forums, I doubt we need to separate out the forums. The question then is, are there discussion problems with self-bumping? I think there are two parts to this:
Can you post entirely self-bumped? Currently there are issues with this, especially in the trading subforums. One of the main problems here is the availability of front-page space. Gear trading gets hard here, as replacement threads require both beating existing threads in posts, and in linked gear. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full exposure, and can skimp on posts and still progress quickly.
If we are going to make changes, it will likely be on the ability to make or the availability of multiple threads.
The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-bumping? In general, the main issue comes when players look to the top page and to streamers to direct what their post experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to post. In general those players are pushing every advantage they can from trade forums, off-topic, suggestions...
Often, when I get told - "everyone is posting X", and I have a look, there are often only a handful of people posting, its just often these threads are the most visible. An example of this is 6-link Shavronne's. If I look at the trade forums, in all leagues, posted in the last month, well under 50 players have Shavronne's Wrappings for sale. And if I look at the posts, if you want to get trolled, wear a Shavronne's.
We will not be making a new forum to make it possible to replicate the posts of these players. 1) We don't think its needed. 2) From past experience, if we make accommodations to make it possible to replicate these players' posts, these players will still flame you. If we made a self-bump forum with competitive advantages but solo posting, you'll see the same threads at the top of those forums, and we'll get a new set of complaints from people who want to replicate the threads without the same investment in posts.
In the existing forums, there is nothing stopping anyone from self-bumping, and we know many of our players do. We also have players that only rarely bump other players' threads, trolling and flaming occasionally.
So, as you can self-bump in existing forums, I doubt we need to separate out the forums. The question then is, are there discussion problems with self-bumping? I think there are two parts to this:
Can you post entirely self-bumped? Currently there are issues with this, especially in the trading subforums. One of the main problems here is the availability of front-page space. Gear trading gets hard here, as replacement threads require both beating existing threads in posts, and in linked gear. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full exposure, and can skimp on posts and still progress quickly.
If we are going to make changes, it will likely be on the ability to make or the availability of multiple threads.
The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-bumping? In general, the main issue comes when players look to the top page and to streamers to direct what their post experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to post. In general those players are pushing every advantage they can from trade forums, off-topic, suggestions...
Often, when I get told - "everyone is posting X", and I have a look, there are often only a handful of people posting, its just often these threads are the most visible. An example of this is 6-link Shavronne's. If I look at the trade forums, in all leagues, posted in the last month, well under 50 players have Shavronne's Wrappings for sale. And if I look at the posts, if you want to get trolled, wear a Shavronne's.
We will not be making a new forum to make it possible to replicate the posts of these players. 1) We don't think its needed. 2) From past experience, if we make accommodations to make it possible to replicate these players' posts, these players will still flame you. If we made a self-bump forum with competitive advantages but solo posting, you'll see the same threads at the top of those forums, and we'll get a new set of complaints from people who want to replicate the threads without the same investment in posts.
In the existing forums, there is nothing stopping anyone from self-bumping, and we know many of our players do. We also have players that only rarely bump other players' threads, trolling and flaming occasionally.
So, as you can self-bump in existing forums, I doubt we need to separate out the forums. The question then is, are there discussion problems with self-bumping? I think there are two parts to this:
Can you post entirely self-bumped? Currently there are issues with this, especially in the trading subforums. One of the main problems here is the availability of front-page space. Gear trading gets hard here, as replacement threads require both beating existing threads in posts, and in linked gear. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full exposure, and can skimp on posts and still progress quickly.
If we are going to make changes, it will likely be on the ability to make or the availability of multiple threads.
The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-bumping? In general, the main issue comes when players look to the top page and to streamers to direct what their post experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to post. In general those players are pushing every advantage they can from trade forums, off-topic, suggestions...
Often, when I get told - "everyone is posting X", and I have a look, there are often only a handful of people posting, its just often these threads are the most visible. An example of this is 6-link Shavronne's. If I look at the trade forums, in all leagues, posted in the last month, well under 50 players have Shavronne's Wrappings for sale. And if I look at the posts, if you want to get trolled, wear a Shavronne's.
We will not be making a new forum to make it possible to replicate the posts of these players. 1) We don't think its needed. 2) From past experience, if we make accommodations to make it possible to replicate these players' posts, these players will still flame you. If we made a self-bump forum with competitive advantages but solo posting, you'll see the same threads at the top of those forums, and we'll get a new set of complaints from people who want to replicate the threads without the same investment in posts.
A self-bump league is the most requested feature not only in PoE, but in D3 as well. There is no harm in GGG trying a 1-week or 1-month SBL. Maybe even the haters will like it in the end :)
In the existing forums, there is nothing stopping anyone from self-bumping, and we know many of our players do. We also have players that only rarely bump other players' threads, trolling and flaming occasionally.
So, as you can self-bump in existing forums, I doubt we need to separate out the forums. The question then is, are there discussion problems with self-bumping? I think there are two parts to this:
Can you post entirely self-bumped? Currently there are issues with this, especially in the trading subforums. One of the main problems here is the availability of front-page space. Gear trading gets hard here, as replacement threads require both beating existing threads in posts, and in linked gear. This isn't usually an issue earlier, as you aren't needing full exposure, and can skimp on posts and still progress quickly.
If we are going to make changes, it will likely be on the ability to make or the availability of multiple threads.
The second issue is, what is the player expectation of self-bumping? In general, the main issue comes when players look to the top page and to streamers to direct what their post experience would be like. This gives players a very distorted view of what they should be able to post. In general those players are pushing every advantage they can from trade forums, off-topic, suggestions...
Often, when I get told - "everyone is posting X", and I have a look, there are often only a handful of people posting, its just often these threads are the most visible. An example of this is 6-link Shavronne's. If I look at the trade forums, in all leagues, posted in the last month, well under 50 players have Shavronne's Wrappings for sale. And if I look at the posts, if you want to get trolled, wear a Shavronne's.
We will not be making a new forum to make it possible to replicate the posts of these players. 1) We don't think its needed. 2) From past experience, if we make accommodations to make it possible to replicate these players' posts, these players will still flame you. If we made a self-bump forum with competitive advantages but solo posting, you'll see the same threads at the top of those forums, and we'll get a new set of complaints from people who want to replicate the threads without the same investment in posts.
Forcing yourself to play self bump and posting in a self bump league is not the same at all.
1) you don't have an empty forum just for that thread (even if you empty out a forum the temptation will always be there plus you may accidentally bump threads with a +1 they didn't earn)
2) if you post with others you will be severely weaker than them (they will try to invalidate your arguments)
3) In terms of postcount you will be competing with people with much higher thread diversity and not with other self bump players
4) as a pundit you will never enjoy a self enforced self bump
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Oct 18, 2013, 5:52:38 AM
I can not believe Rhys did waste his time to post in this thread.
I can not believe it is being not butter.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Judging from the way Rhys had to subsequently respond to accusations of counter-trolling and (d'oh) political incorrectness in crazytrain411's legendary thread, I'd say the self-found advocates are missing a golden opportunity to get some forced self-found feedback very much the same way here. But then, this is in Off-topic.
As for self-bump, instead of a separate forum, I'm more in favor of limiting the amount of new threads created while at the same time increasing the number of posts able to be viewed in a thread, so that the bigger context is missed by less people and intra-thread memory is augmented for more consistent-quality threads overall.
Have you made a cool build using The Coming Calamity? Let me know!
Last edited by ephetat on Oct 18, 2013, 9:12:26 AM
