Our view on map drop rates

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Dinos wrote:

I don't know what's with all the complaining about map drops. I had to buy the first 5 to have a starting pool since they don't drop anywhere in act 2, but once you're actually doing maps there's at least one and usually two that drop every single level.

Do people really run out of these things? And if so, are you actually killing all the monsters? Or are you just diving for the boss, popping a diamond flask or two and then porting home?


lol @ the dude complaining about dieing in maps at level 75.

People do run out, especially when trying to do higher level maps. Going from a 66 or 67 map and having an unlucky string of no maps then having to start over from 60's again is really frustrating. Even if it's only a few people who actually experience such bad RNG, those are the people who come to the forums to complain. For everyone else for whom the game is working properly and the RNG isn't an issue, they are happily and silently playing the game. So average viewpoint on the forums will be skewed more towards "not good enough" compared to what the actual average player experience is.

It's not hard to imagine dying at lv75 when you're using a bow and have 99/232 mf. Times have changed.

Edit: I agree that a flat drop rate is a great change, but I think the way you have you play the most insane mods to sustain lv64+ maps (if anyone has accomplished this as of 0.9.12) is going to make new players very discouraged bc they can't mf well for upgrades unless they're wearing uber double mf gear that rivals normal non-casual gear. I think this will just lead to crafting and trading, where the former is a wase of mats you can use to trade, and the latter leads to a lack of feeling rewarded.

This is just my personal take on where the endgame as of this version is heading with this patch.

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wiggin wrote:

Since the 9.12d I'm getting enough maps. All I did was rolling for over 50% IIQ and running those; on average I got 2 maps per a map. Just try harder maps guys, it should help a lot.

About the original idea of itemized endgame, I think there is nothing wrong with it if the balance is set right. If you happen to be in the theoretic 5% minority Ferumbras is talking about, you can still buy the map and keep going. Because if there is a minority without maps, there must be also a minority with excess of them. All this is achieved by balancing the map rate for 'average' player. The fundamental mechanic is not flawed.

Also it makes sense to make the availability of high level maps (65+) dependent on your ability to run really hard low level ones. If you can't handle those, you wouldn't be able to handle the high level ones either.

Perhaps it is just me, but how does everybody ensures themselves of sufficiently high enough maps (difficulty wise)? In 9.11 I was one of those running out of maps (after 3 weeks of constant map running), and have since not touched them again (I refuse to trade for maps, it's concept to me is so wrong in so many ways). But when I did have maps I burned every chaos, every alchemy and every alteration orb on getting at least decent maps. How on earth do people get enough orbs to actually sustain a high supply of very hard maps?

I thought you needed all those to actually improve your gear as well. You know, the whole reason why you are running those maps to begin with?

I just don't get it... Perhaps PoE's current direction is just not for me. Not fun at all.

The idea to tie end game to RNG/chance is backward as hell and in fact i've not seen any good game that does it.


GW2 have this system where when you complete a dungeon you get tokens along the way and with these tokens you get gear just like WOW battle grounds.
Seeing how successful this system is i think GGG should think about it.

Make it so that when you kill a boss in a level 63 map he drops for example 3 tokens and with these 3 tokens you can buy another level 63 map.

Now the mobs in the map "and only maps" can also drop tokens so if the boss drops 3 tokens and you get another 2 tokens you can buy a level 64 map.
Of course we need to make level 60 maps sold with vendors with something like 1 transmutation or something like that.

With this we emanate some problems :
1- players can't get higher level maps for their levels.
2- players who will jump to the boss and kill him will be wasting a map and not getting the rest of the possible token from the mobs.
3- bad luck/roll will not be a problem any more.

It even can go further so that players can trade some of these extra tokens they won't use for orbs that don't have recipes.

This is a solution that i find both FAIR so that every one gets to play their favorite maps and add more depth to the game.

I find that making the ability to anticipate in end game based on chance is not that common and in fact shunned greatly by many people.

Just copied this from my other post maybe someone here will see it.

It's an attempt to solve this and in terms of a game like GW2 it's a good attempt.

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Ferumbras wrote:

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wiggin wrote:

-snip-

Perhaps it is just me, but how does everybody ensures themselves of sufficiently high enough maps (difficulty wise)? In 9.11 I was one of those running out of maps (after 3 weeks of constant map running), and have since not touched them again (I refuse to trade for maps, it's concept to me is so wrong in so many ways). But when I did have maps I burned every chaos, every alchemy and every alteration orb on getting at least decent maps. How on earth do people get enough orbs to actually sustain a high supply of very hard maps?

I thought you needed all those to actually improve your gear as well. You know, the whole reason why you are running those maps to begin with?

I just don't get it... Perhaps PoE's current direction is just not for me. Not fun at all.

This is good point. I think I will run out of orbs eventually.
You can get 30% map with alts if you have them and you will usuall get around 40-50% map with alch. I think nobody has touble with getting enough alts but to reroll a map for 50%+ you have to burn more valuable orbs...

Maybe, just maybe, it would be beneficial to group up for maps. That way up to 6 people will gain exp from map and they will also get some loot (I think more useful loot on average if every one of them needs different type) and burn less orbs, chisels and maps.

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wiggin wrote:

You can get 30% map with alts if you have them and you will usuall get around 40-50% map with alch. I think nobody has touble with getting enough alts but to reroll a map for 50%+ you have to burn more valuable orbs...

Maybe, just maybe, it would be beneficial to group up for maps. That way up to 6 people will gain exp from map and they will also get some loot (I think more useful loot on average if every one of them needs different type) and burn less orbs, chisels and maps.

Then maybe...just maybe they need to change the FFA looting system or add an option for instanced loot....something they are extremely stubborn on.

Also in one of their videos chirs said that they want players to be able to 100% solo every thing in the game.

The difficulty of a map should not be related to the amount of maps you get out of it, but to the level of the maps you get out. By doing difficult maps you show that you are able to do higher level maps.

A player should be able to influence easily the difficulty level they are playing at and higher difficulty should be rewarded. There is nothing more frustrating than being forced to play below your level just because you ran out of high level maps. I haven't ran maps over lvl 62, but for me the lvl 62 map was the same difficulty as lvl 60. There should be a steep ramp up in difficulty with level.

Low level maps should be available easily, lvl 60 at the vendor for transmutations. There is no use for transmutations anyway.

The people who were facerolling maps already were most likely wearing almost no MF gear. If I chose to run maps at 129/219 the maps with the good mods were already pretty damn dangerous at times.

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Chris wrote:

b) Players are not playing hard enough maps (in terms of mods). If you don't have mods on it, its yield may not average a new map on average. For players who are making theirs rare with difficult mods, they get more maps than they spend, on average.

Maps was not enough rewardfull for doing it with hard mods.
I cant say what now after 0 9 12d patch, not did alot maps. But before for make good map i needed spam alot orbs on it, so it makes any gear without quantity useless, cause i needed farm orbs. Most items that i looted im maps, was crappy and not sellable to other players for skiping orb farming. As my expirience piramid, waterfall cave and thicket have better orbs drop rates then maps, so if i get high lvl map, i needed back to low lvl's zones for farm scour's, alchs and chaoses. I had 144 quantity and looted mb 1-2 chisels per 8 hours. With this quantity and running only rare maps before patch i looted x6 66 lvl and x1 67 for 2 weeks, and playing every day.

To put it into perspective Chris, me and GritsNGravy have, between us both, put about 500 gcp worth of orbs in the current economy just into rolling maps to make them interesting and useful.

Do you not think it is essentially flawed that a player has to sink significant resources and pretty much go broke to progress through the end game?

I don't particularly mind what I have spent so far to get to my stage, but people will definitely get frustrated that they have to go broke just to progress.