use blood magic and make a hybrid, its still a 500+ es chest with some decent mods, and using blood magic and only reserving 65% of your mana so you will never be on low mana to take the extra damage could work
may end up with 2.5k life 3k es or something which isnt that bad and do some nice fire trap damage with a 5-6 link
use blood magic and make a hybrid, its still a 500+ es chest with some decent mods, and using blood magic and only reserving 65% of your mana so you will never be on low mana to take the extra damage could work
may end up with 2.5k life 3k es or something which isnt that bad and do some nice fire trap damage with a 5-6 link
Blood Magic doesn't mix well with Energy shield.
When you use any skill with blood magic, you hurt yourself and thus, can't regen your energy shield. So, unless you stop attacking every once in a while (not very practical) to let your energy shield recover, you won't benefit from your energy shield once its been depleted.
Also, with blood magic, you normally want most of your health pool as life to maximize your regen and also to not risk dying from the life cost of your skills.
I always asked myself this but couldn´t get an answere so i think this i a good moment for that question.
Since you can´t decrease mobs resistance to chaos damage isn´t chaos damage the weakest magic damage you could do in comparison to the other elements?
The reason you can't reduce mobs resistance to chaos damage is probably because it is already very low. I don't have any official information but my guess is that the normal monster chaos resistance is usually much lower than their elemental damage resistance.
To answer the OP's question, if you are creating a character with a lots of burning damage and this is the case of many fire builds, then the 25% fire damage converted to chaos damage is kinda lost. It will reduce your burning damage by 25%.
Also if you use curses like elemental weakness/flammability or fire penetration gem, then the 25% chaos damage is also more a bad thing than a good thing.
The only case where the chaos damage is nice is when the fire build doesn't involve much crit/burning and when not using fire resistance weakening skills/gems In my opinion, that doesn't happen very often. I know that some ppl using firestorm don't like burning damage because it makes some monsters running away from the storm. But then, the increased crit chance from the chest is undesirable.
Some ppl may argue that the 25% chaos convertion helps against elemental reflect. However, with max resist, elemental reflect isn't usually a problem.
However, the major problem with the chest is the increased spell damage taken when low on mana. Most character pick up as many auras as their mana allows, and keep just enough mana to cast their main spells without going constantly out of mana. That usually means being low on mana (less than 33% of max mana) 100% of the time, which means double damage taken from spells. That hurts ! The nice amount of ES the infernal mantle provides just isn't enough to compensate. To adjust to that penalty, you'd either need to give up some auras or pick up more +% mana nods. In either case, its a bigger penalty than what ppl are ready to pay. So they simply give up their plan to use the chest.
The only type of character that wouldn't have problem with the spell damage penalty when low on mana are blood magic characters. But blood magic characters have no use for the energy shield.
So, unless I'm missing something, that leave very few builds for which the mantle could be a very good item to get.
Is your conversion theory correct in regards to resist? I was under the impression that conversion damage receives all modifiers of the damage it is being converted from. Resists of the mobs decides how much fire damage you do, and the chaos damage is based on how much fire damage you do, doesn't the transitive property imply that the monster's fire resist affects how much chaos damage you do from soul mantle conversion?
I always asked myself this but couldn´t get an answere so i think this i a good moment for that question.
Since you can´t decrease mobs resistance to chaos damage isn´t chaos damage the weakest magic damage you could do in comparison to the other elements?
The reason you can't reduce mobs resistance to chaos damage is probably because it is already very low. I don't have any official information but my guess is that the normal monster chaos resistance is usually much lower than their elemental damage resistance.
To answer the OP's question, if you are creating a character with a lots of burning damage and this is the case of many fire builds, then the 25% fire damage converted to chaos damage is kinda lost. It will reduce your burning damage by 25%.
Also if you use curses like elemental weakness/flammability or fire penetration gem, then the 25% chaos damage is also more a bad thing than a good thing.
The only case where the chaos damage is nice is when the fire build doesn't involve much crit/burning and when not using fire resistance weakening skills/gems In my opinion, that doesn't happen very often. I know that some ppl using firestorm don't like burning damage because it makes some monsters running away from the storm. But then, the increased crit chance from the chest is undesirable.
Some ppl may argue that the 25% chaos convertion helps against elemental reflect. However, with max resist, elemental reflect isn't usually a problem.
However, the major problem with the chest is the increased spell damage taken when low on mana. Most character pick up as many auras as their mana allows, and keep just enough mana to cast their main spells without going constantly out of mana. That usually means being low on mana (less than 33% of max mana) 100% of the time, which means double damage taken from spells. That hurts ! The nice amount of ES the infernal mantle provides just isn't enough to compensate. To adjust to that penalty, you'd either need to give up some auras or pick up more +% mana nods. In either case, its a bigger penalty than what ppl are ready to pay. So they simply give up their plan to use the chest.
The only type of character that wouldn't have problem with the spell damage penalty when low on mana are blood magic characters. But blood magic characters have no use for the energy shield.
So, unless I'm missing something, that leave very few builds for which the mantle could be a very good item to get.
Is your conversion theory correct in regards to resist? I was under the impression that conversion damage receives all modifiers of the damage it is being converted from. Resists of the mobs decides how much fire damage you do, and the chaos damage is based on how much fire damage you do, doesn't the transitive property imply that the monster's fire resist affects how much chaos damage you do from soul mantle conversion?
Good question. But in my opinion, the system calculates how much damage you deal, including conversion. Once this first calculation is done, it calculates how much damage the monster receive, based on its resists (including curses and elemental penetration used by the attacker).
Ya I can see how that could work like that, separating how much damage you 'do' as a different entity than how much damage the mob takes. I personally dont have enough experience with converted damage to know if it is all one event or not. I would speculate though that the elemental penetration would be part of the damage side of it though, as that is specifically linked to the outgoing damage as a damage modifier, as opposed to mob's resists, and the effects of curses which are separate in nature. The penetration supports shape my opinion that the conversion damage takes the mob's resistances into account.
Hey...is this thing on?
Last edited by LostForm on Aug 7, 2013, 11:53:57 AM
Btw, I posted the detailed theorycraft build around Poison Arrows/Blackgleam/Infernal Mantle in the ranger forum. I called him the Infernal Poisoner Archer :
To answer the OP's question, if you are creating a character with a lots of burning damage and this is the case of many fire builds, then the 25% fire damage converted to chaos damage is kinda lost. It will reduce your burning damage by 25%.
The only burn damage builds I know of that is kinda common is the searing touch dischargers, firetrap users and elemental proliferate fireballers (and that is kinda bad anyway). If you are just using standard LMP fireballs spam the burn damage will be very insignificant anyway making the chaos conversion far superior. I think of it as a free global fire pen gem!
Also if you use curses like elemental weakness/flammability or fire penetration gem, then the 25% chaos damage is also more a bad thing than a good thing.
The chaos conversion makes elemental weakness/flammability/fire pen weaker but that is not saying that the end total damage is worse. Prioritize other support gems/curses over them instead maybe crit weakness and increased crit multiplier if you want damage.
I have a fire based witch using infernal mantle (only lvl 79 though) and I find it to be amazing. Before using if I had a standard 5L rare ES chest with fireball - LMP - faster casting - conc effect - fire pen. When switching to my 4L infernal mantle I had to drop purity (sad for that) and fire pen but the damage increase was insane and improved my clearing speed greatly it also helped me not run out of mana all the time as I dont need the fire pen any more. I am still using my old flammability curse as I found it with decent quality and have it at a decent level now but could probably win out on changing for crit weakness.
Edit: that chaos conversion is also insane for PvP (if you care about that) aslong as you dont face CI player though. But in a normal match against a standard player with maxed fire resist but with the average almost -60% chaos resist you will do insane damage.
Last edited by Grildrak on Aug 7, 2013, 12:13:21 PM
Good question. But in my opinion, the system calculates how much damage you deal, including conversion. Once this first calculation is done, it calculates how much damage the monster receive, based on its resists (including curses and elemental penetration used by the attacker).
Correct. It's the difference between Damage Dealt (listed on the Character Sheet, factoring in Conversion), and Damage Taken (factoring in stuff like Shock, Armour and Resists; not visible).
Conversion happens before even Increased/Reduced/More/Less by the way; that way Increased Fire and Increased Chaos damage won't stack multiplicatively. Science!
Last edited by Vipermagi on Aug 7, 2013, 3:05:04 PM
