Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Xaxyx wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

Chris Rock said it well enough:

Ah yes, Chris Rock, the penultimate philosopher of our time. As long as we're exchanging random, entertaining political quotes from comedians, here's George Carlin:

"The difference between left and right of center...originated in the French parliament. The people left of center were liberals; the people right of center were conservatives. Broadly speaking. And generally speaking, people on...the right of center, are interested in property values, property, property rights. The rights and the rights of property. And generally speaking again – it's all generalized – the left-of-center people are more concerned with humans and human beings and human concerns; to the care of humans, not the care and worry about property rights. That's generally been true."

Ah, but the Chris Rock quote had a message (which was in bold); the George Carlin quote is just explaining a historical origin. A perfect example of how you speak much but say little.

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Xaxyx wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

Your attempts to label anyone who supports FFA loot as "RED" and basically "the worst humanity has to offer" is a sad attempt at manipulation.

Gee, that's strange. I don't recall asserting that REDS were worse than GREENS. Why ever would you make that assumption? You're not somehow implying that REDS have some sort of lesser moral fiber, an inferior worldview, are you? That the two stances should be compared, and when doing so, that GREENS are somehow demonstrably superior? What could possibly have led you to draw such a conclusion? What would ever lead you presume that the GREEN way is BETTER than the RED way?

You create a description of the least-desirable kind of person imaginable, arbitrarily attribute that description to people who like FFA loot, and your argument is that you didn't 'technically' say those people were worse than the "other" group of people for whom you gave sunny description? Seriously? That is your response?

You implied that "REDS" were worse than "GREENS" when you made up your little system - which is all it is: a made-up system. I wouldn't assert that "REDS" are anything because the term "RED" has no value except to you, because you arbitrarily assigned the value in the first place with your various negative descriptions.

I just wanted to say I quite like how the looting is currently setup.

Most people are fairly nice anyways and leave items on the ground that they wouldn't have any immediate use for anyway.

As this thread has turned from an actual discussion into a hate spewing attack against other members of the community.

I'm out.

Wrathmar, lethal, and planet: despite our differences, I've enjoyed actually talking with you about this topic in civil manner.

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Aixius wrote:

Ah, but the Chris Rock quote had a message (which was in bold); the George Carlin quote is just explaining a historical origin. A perfect example of how you speak much but say little.

Don't stand up just now. The point is flying right over your head.

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Xaxyx wrote:

You create a description of the least-desirable kind of person imaginable, arbitrarily attribute that description to people who like FFA loot, and your argument is that you didn't 'technically' say those people were worse than the "other" group of people for whom you gave sunny description? Seriously? That is your response?

What's so undesirable about greed? This game's loot system is designed around greed. I have a *direct quote from the lead developer* asserting that this game's loot system is driven by greed, in precisely those words. Yet it's your assertion that greed is undesirable? Maybe you're on the wrong side of this tent. May I see your ticket?

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You implied that "REDS" were worse than "GREENS" when you made up your little system - which is all it is: a made-up system. I wouldn't assert that "REDS" are anything because the term "RED" has no value except to you, because you arbitrarily assigned the value in the first place with your various negative descriptions.

Of course it's a made-up system. I even said so when I made it up. I find it fascinating, though, that you automatically associate greed with negativity. Why do you suppose that is? What aspect of your ethical system propels you to make this association?

Xaxyx certainly has a point with his reference to the Prisoner's Dilemma. At least something to think about.

The most simple solution to this almost 2 years old discussion (yes, GGG has planned OB on its anniversary) would be to give both sides what they want. FFA for the FFA-ers and non-FFA for the non-FFA-ers. Just as an option when creating the multi-player instance.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

As this thread has turned from an actual discussion into a hate spewing attack against other members of the community.

I'm out.

Wrathmar, lethal, and planet: despite our differences, I've enjoyed actually talking with you about this topic in civil manner.

Sad to see you go SL4Y3R. Always nice and understanding. This thread will miss you......

Wanting to play in a red environment is not inherently bad, just like wanting to play in a green environment is not inherently bad. They are two different play styles and the game population will be able to support both.

What’s bad is Red players forcing Green players to play in their desired environment. In this situation the Red player gets extra loot and the Green player becomes frustrated. Default will be where most players hang out long term. FORCING a play style upon a large segment of the player base is a very bad idea and will hurt the game in the long run. FFA should be an option that IRL friends and Red players can enjoy without frustrating Green players

At some point in this debate most Red players have posted in agreement to some small yet meaningful change to the current system. D2 was a great game but it had many flaws including FFA loot.

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Xaxyx wrote:

Of course it's a made-up system. I even said so when I made it up. I find it fascinating, though, that you automatically associate greed with negativity. Why do you suppose that is? What aspect of your ethical system propels you to make this association?

Apparently you are easily fascinated. Your posts are laden with this trash, which is all I need to post:

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Xaxyx wrote:

Yet by some staggering, astounding coincidence, the players who we would arbitrarily label as REDS by this standard turn out to exhibit precisely the sort of personality traits we might suspect: bullying, abusive, intolerant, clinging desperately to the hope that they'll be permitted and encouraged to practice their obnoxious behavior beyond their wildest sociopathic dreams. Even down to the most stereotypical of bully responses: when challenged, they lash out viciously, attacking, foaming at the mouth, refusing to even consider for the slightest instant that they might be in the wrong.

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Aixius wrote:

Apparently you are easily fascinated. Your posts are laden with this trash, which is all I need to post

And thus you make my point for me. Thanks again! I couldn't ask for a better friend. Don't quit on us now. You're doing so well.

I can see the future ...

In Town Party Poster Boards ...

-A1 Merv - Greens only pls
-A2 Leveling - GFTO Greens
-Team Ninja - Reds Only

and so forth.

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Xaxyx wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

Apparently you are easily fascinated. Your posts are laden with this trash, which is all I need to post

And thus you make my point for me. Thanks again! I couldn't ask for a better friend. Don't quit on us now. You're doing so well.

i.e the most stereotypical of bully responses: when challenged, they lash out viciously, attacking, foaming at the mouth, refusing to even consider for the slightest instant that they might be in the wrong.