Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

"

iamstryker wrote:

The most consistently given answer is grouping as evidenced by Lethal Papercut's thread, and Wraths thread showed that people would prefer a different looting system over the one that we currently have. So far out of the polling threads we know that A) Many players don't group because of the looting system and B) People know what kind of system that they would play public games on.

IMO screw polling threads. I would like to see a real test of looting options in game to see how people react. If many more people play public games then we know that we were right.

+1 this is a beta test after all. Lets test it.

"

wrathmar wrote:

"

lethal_papercut wrote:

Yes yes PACE is the reason that noone wants to play public games, that's why there are 200+ page threads about pace & new ones made everyday, all about pace, what was I thinking being under the impression that the loot options are more important than pacing, what a clot I am.

The pace of multiplayer is controlled by the loot system. So when someone complains about pace they are in fact complaining about the loot system.

The pro-FFA posters act like half the players enjoy FFA and the other half doesn't. When the fact is that >10% like the current system but they are very vocal.

That's an interesting response to the post you quoted, considering that it was all sarcasm.
The pace of the game can be controlled by any number of things, from loot dropping to stash management to build planning to bathroom breaks. It certainly does not boil down to "complaints about pace = complaints about the loot system"...that's some special deductive logic there.

Pace isn't a "strawman argument" as Squirry said, it's a real reason that some people don't group. It was never meant to be the sole argument for anything, only part of an overall discussion. Not sure why any of you anti-FFA players would latch onto it like it was the last hurrah of the pro-FFA players.

"

Aixius wrote:

That's an interesting response to the post you quoted, considering that it was all sarcasm.
The pace of the game can be controlled by any number of things, from loot dropping to stash management to build planning to bathroom breaks. It certainly does not boil down to "complaints about pace = complaints about the loot system"...that's some special deductive logic there.

Pace isn't a "strawman argument" as Squirry said, it's a real reason that some people don't group. It was never meant to be the sole argument for anything, only part of an overall discussion. Not sure why any of you anti-FFA players would latch onto it like it was the last hurrah of the pro-FFA players.

Yes pace is controlled by loot, player damage, Monster health, stash management, socializing, etc. It's not 'special' logic to point out that when players complain about pace they are in part complaining about the loot system.
**Because the timer (FFA) loot system increases the pace of groups.**

I am not 'latching' on to anything I am just responding to a post made by you or slayer.

edit: btw I knew that the post I quoted was sarcastic.

"

wrathmar wrote:

"

Wrathmar wrote:

The pace of multiplayer is controlled by the loot system. So when someone complains about pace they are in fact complaining about the loot system.

The pro-FFA posters act like half the players enjoy FFA and the other half doesn't. When the fact is that >10% like the current system but they are very vocal.

Yes pace is controlled by loot, player damage, Monster health, stash management, socializing, etc. It's not 'special' logic to point out that when players complain about pace they are in part complaining about the loot system.
**Because the timer (FFA) loot system increases the pace of groups.**

I am not 'latching' on to anything I am just responding to a post made by you or slayer.

edit: btw I knew that the post I quoted was sarcastic.

Your argument was that complaints about pacing were in fact complaints about the loot system, despite the fact that there are many non-loot-related factors that also affect pacing. So yes, it was either poor logic or you were intentionally omitting information to make your argument relevant.

"

Aixius wrote:

"

wrathmar wrote:

"

Wrathmar wrote:

The pace of multiplayer is controlled by the loot system. So when someone complains about pace they are in fact complaining about the loot system.

The pro-FFA posters act like half the players enjoy FFA and the other half doesn't. When the fact is that >10% like the current system but they are very vocal.

Yes pace is controlled by loot, player damage, Monster health, stash management, socializing, etc. It's not 'special' logic to point out that when players complain about pace they are in part complaining about the loot system.
**Because the timer (FFA) loot system increases the pace of groups.**

I am not 'latching' on to anything I am just responding to a post made by you or slayer.

edit: btw I knew that the post I quoted was sarcastic.

Your argument was that complaints about pacing were in fact complaints about the loot system, despite the fact that there are many non-loot-related factors that also affect pacing. So yes, it was either poor logic or you were intentionally omitting information to make your argument relevant.

You make a fair point. My original statement did not include the other non-loot factors of pace.

In my opinion group pace is controlled by
1.Player damage vs monster health
2.loot allocation
3.socializing
4.stash management
5.non-game factors

in that order.

And the point is still relevant.

"

wrathmar wrote:

You make a fair point. My original statement did not include the other non-loot factors of pace.

In my opinion group pace is controlled by
1.Player damage vs monster health
2.loot allocation
3.socializing
4.stash management
5.non-game factors

in that order.

And the point is still relevant.

I know it didn't, and you didn't include them because it would have made your original statement look like this:

"

wrathmar wrote:

The pace of multiplayer is controlled by:
1.Player damage vs monster health
2.loot allocation
3.socializing
4.stash management
5.non-game factors

So when someone complains about pace they are in fact complaining about the loot system.

Which, as you can see, would have made your point far less relevant, because when someone complains about pace they could in fact be complaining for any number of reasons.


So now we're back to the original point: that pace is a legitimate reason why some people don't group (not a strawman argument), and pacing is affected by more than just loot allocation.

There is no doubt that pace is a legitimate reason when discussing reasons why people don't pub I have never denied that, in fact my thread confirmed it to some degree as the second most popular reason. "Pacing" is quite a generic term tho as people's pacing issues ranged from "tending to the kids" to "I just like to look at every item & take my time".

I am not trying to argue that pacing isn't significant but I am not going to let it be stated as the main reason for people not partying, which is what some of the pro-ffa crowd would have you believe. Pacing is what it is, there is not much that can be added to the game to help the numerous reasons that cause the various pacing issues other than providing a pack of condoms & a can of red bull with your beta key.

Looting on the other hand can be quoted with some degree of confidence as "the main" reason people don't like to party in POE & it is something that can be remedied. As I have said a million times, adding options will not take away anything from the game, noone loses & everyone gains. If you like FFA, play it, if you like instanced, play it, job done.

Problem is. It's not as simple as everyone wins. The people which like FFA will lose players who play with FFA loot, but may not.love it. The devs may not like it in their game, and only add it with extreme reluctance. The only people that win, outright, are those that want loot options.

For the record, everytime I hear the phrase, "everyone wins". I think of a coach handing out participation trophies to kids who came in last during a race.

Because in reality, everyone wins, just doesn't happen.

Edit: forgot to mention. Other people who lose are those who did.not care for FFA at first, but who gradually learned to enjoy it. These people would've automatically chosen instanced loot, and would have missed out learning to enjoy FFA.

"

SL4Y3R wrote:

Edit: forgot to mention. Other people who lose are those who did.not care for FFA at first, but who gradually learned to enjoy it. These people would've automatically chosen instanced loot, and would have missed out learning to enjoy FFA.

missed out on ffa loot and enjoy it? think id rather get enema's every day and learn to enjoy them more.

If you were to allow instanced loot as an option, it would affect how IIQ works. Right now, disregarding map bonuses and personal IIQ bonuses, each full party instance has +250% IIQ or 250% more drops on average. If we don't change how the system works and just add instanced loot, each full party instance would have a staggering +1250% IIQ or 5 times more drops than a FFA group. If we removed the IIQ bonus, it would still be +500% IIQ due to the 5 extra people (100% IIQ each); twice the drops of FFA. The only solution to this would be to decrease the IIQ of each player as more people join the party. A party of two would have 75% base IIQ each, a party of 6 50%. Now do you think this is a good solution? Punish players for partying?

Map IIQ works the same way. How exactly would you allocate it? Each instance of loot gets the bonus? It gets divided per loot instance? Is this fair to the players? Is it fun to lose IIQ for grouping?

On the topic of maps, know that right now, it's pretty much a waste to run high level maps by yourself, unless you hate everyone in your league that's 75+. Now consider how everyone gives the map to the maker so you can keep the map train running. In FFA, it's easier to arbitrate distributes since you can see the map drop. What about in instanced loot? How would you tell if someone took a map from the maker or not? There's a fundamental breakdown in trust with this system. There's no teamwork there, only 6 players in their own little worlds.

In conclusion, instanced loot isn't the perfect solution you people envision it to be.