Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Strill wrote:

You think maybe some players don't care for a reaction time game determining who gets loot? You think maybe some players just want to play the game without stopping everything they're doing every time an item drops? You think some players want to play the game in a way that's most sound for tactical reasons, not most sound for loot grabbing reasons?

You think tactics can't possibly include keeping an eye out for the good items (as opposed to the junk and the stuff not for one's build)?

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Strill wrote:

You think maybe some players don't care for having to bring skills specifically to fuck over your own team so you can steal the loot? Because if the devs really intend it to be a competition between players then dammit I'll show them how that game is played. The best strategy is to be dead weight. Attack as little as possible, focusing instead on watching what every enemy's hp is. Try to just make it look like you're attacking without actually accomplishing anything. Hopefully your lack of group contribution will get your party members killed, resulting in less competition for any loot that drops. For skills you would focus on a useless level 1 curse to overwrite whatever curses your allies rely on (hopefully getting them killed), phase run to get to the loot as fast as possible, and frost wall to keep ranged allies from getting to the loot before you, or until the timer runs out. (in other words, ranged are still screwed) You should NEVER get the passives that extend charges to your allies.

Somehow this just sounds like you're gimping your own drops (and, as presently implemented, your flask charges). That's a lot of trouble to go to for griefing your party, and it won't even get you more loot than if you'd just soloed instead.

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Skivverus wrote:

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Strill wrote:

You think maybe some players don't care for a reaction time game determining who gets loot? You think maybe some players just want to play the game without stopping everything they're doing every time an item drops? You think some players want to play the game in a way that's most sound for tactical reasons, not most sound for loot grabbing reasons?

You think tactics can't possibly include keeping an eye out for the good items (as opposed to the junk and the stuff not for one's build)?

Why does it matter whether it's for your build or not? It's free-for-all loot, so if it's valuable, you should get it. Didn't you read the OP? We're supposed to be cutthroats.

And no, I don't think tactics can possibly include keeping an eye out for the good items because not everyone can play as a tanky melee class. If you're a squishy witch and you see a great item drop, do you run into the middle of all the enemies to grab it, risking death? Well, not if I'm in the party because I'd have you ice walled before you could even get there.

This isn't the only scenario where loot drop tactics conflict with good tactics mind you. Here's a selection:

STR character with Taunt -> Only use taunt to get almost-dead enemies away from allies and over to you. Never use it to save an ally from dying. Even if there aren't any drops, it's better for an ally to die than for you to miss out on a loot drop.

Friendly character fighting the boss, and nearly dead -> Stop attacking! Hopefully the boss will finish him off and get you a greater chance at loot. You can also throw a useless curse on the boss to erase whatever was there before.

Character specialized in Endurance charges? NEVER under ANY circumstances get the passive which shares endurance charges! If the charges save a party member from death that could mean them getting the drop!

And I'm sure I could think of plenty more. So in other words, I stand by my statement.

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Strill wrote:

You think maybe some players don't care for having to bring skills specifically to fuck over your own team so you can steal the loot? Because if the devs really intend it to be a competition between players then dammit I'll show them how that game is played. The best strategy is to be dead weight. Attack as little as possible, focusing instead on watching what every enemy's hp is. Try to just make it look like you're attacking without actually accomplishing anything. Hopefully your lack of group contribution will get your party members killed, resulting in less competition for any loot that drops. For skills you would focus on a useless level 1 curse to overwrite whatever curses your allies rely on (hopefully getting them killed), phase run to get to the loot as fast as possible, and frost wall to keep ranged allies from getting to the loot before you, or until the timer runs out. (in other words, ranged are still screwed) You should NEVER get the passives that extend charges to your allies.

Somehow this just sounds like you're gimping your own drops (and, as presently implemented, your flask charges). That's a lot of trouble to go to for griefing your party, and it won't even get you more loot than if you'd just soloed instead.

More players to leech off of means faster drops. The goal isn't to grief your party, it's to maximize loot drops for yourself. If that involves griefing your party then so be it.

The essential strategy is that when one of those bosses appears you should try to kill as many party members as you can, then block off the path to the loot for the rest of them. In the meantime you should only do just enough to convince those around you that you're not a bot and focus entirely on drops. That way you won't get caught preoccupied when good loot drops, but still won't get kicked for leeching like you rightfully should. You get the advantage of faster clear speeds, without having to worry about sharing loot.

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Strill wrote:

The essential strategy is that when one of those bosses appears you should try to kill as many party members as you can, then block off the path to the loot for the rest of them.

I think you're overestimating the bonus loot quality from "bosses", and underestimating the frequency they show up. Good items - or potentially-good items - can drop from any enemy, so unless you want to spam frost walls at everything on the screen (and that'll block you from the loot too unless you're already closer to it than they are), the plan of "ditch the party at the bosses" doesn't provide much of a payoff.

Edit: Also -

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Strill wrote:

Why does it matter whether it's for your build or not? It's free-for-all loot, so if it's valuable, you should get it. Didn't you read the OP? We're supposed to be cutthroats.

For starters, finite inventory space. Picking up "everything (potentially) valuable" will run you out of room very quickly, which in turn runs you the risk of missing out on the items you actually want.
Second, Deckard Cain was never banished here. Picking up items is fairly easy, but the time you spend identifying them adds up, which feeds back into the previous point.

a poll would be more easy
(GGG should make polls in game too, so more people that is actually playing will vote)

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Skivverus wrote:

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Strill wrote:

The essential strategy is that when one of those bosses appears you should try to kill as many party members as you can, then block off the path to the loot for the rest of them.

I think you're overestimating the bonus loot quality from "bosses", and underestimating the frequency they show up. Good items - or potentially-good items - can drop from any enemy, so unless you want to spam frost walls at everything on the screen (and that'll block you from the loot too unless you're already closer to it than they are), the plan of "ditch the party at the bosses" doesn't provide much of a payoff.

Edit: Also -

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Strill wrote:

Why does it matter whether it's for your build or not? It's free-for-all loot, so if it's valuable, you should get it. Didn't you read the OP? We're supposed to be cutthroats.

For starters, finite inventory space. Picking up "everything (potentially) valuable" will run you out of room very quickly, which in turn runs you the risk of missing out on the items you actually want.
Second, Deckard Cain was never banished here. Picking up items is fairly easy, but the time you spend identifying them adds up, which feeds back into the previous point.

Judging by the Brutus fight, that doesn't seem to be the case at all. It looks to me like a guaranteed boss that drops lots of loot. In fact, it looks like running away from the boss before it's dead to get to the treasure first is a great idea.

Oh, those bosses. My point about them not being worth holding out for still stands - partly because they take so little time to run at the moment - and besides, they're still doing work on them.

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Strill wrote:

Oh wow this game has MAGIC FIND?! Oh boy Magic Find can go screw itself. Finding an item with fantastic overall stats but no magic find and realizing that the item is useless is about the biggest disappointment you could probably bake into a game. It takes the excitement out of finding cool items because they don't have magic find and are thus worthless, and doesn't put any excitement back because its effect is irrelevant to the gameplay. (You found a good item with magic find? Whoop de doo now you can farm more.) Magic Find is nothing but frustration unless its carefully balanced in such a way that it can't be sacrificed in exchange for combat ability.

Magic find gives players the choice of either having fun now with their good items that have no magic find, or having less enjoyable gameplay in exchange for greatly increased loot efficiency. Why would you make players choose between having unpleasant gameplay and getting good drops!?


ugh... this game is an even worse disappointment than magic find. So many good decisions annihilated by a few horrendous decisions.

You should probably read through my explanations on MF in this thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/14081/page/1
MF in PoE is completely optional... nothing like how it was in d2.

I honestly can't understand how FFA loot is desirable over individual loot in any way whatsoever. Pretty much for the exact reasons brought up by Strill.

If that 'cut-throat' feeling is so important to some people then just make it part of a seperate 'cut-throat' ladder or something. Maybe up the difficulty in it to prevent everyone in the ladder soloing and make PVP always-on, just to make it more cut-throat/hilarious. Sorry if the idea's already been brought up, I've only read the last few pages of the thread.

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taekvideo wrote:

You should probably read through my explanations on MF in this thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/14081/page/1
MF in PoE is completely optional... nothing like how it was in d2.

That thread appears to be in the beta members only area.

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Strill wrote:

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taekvideo wrote:

You should probably read through my explanations on MF in this thread: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/14081/page/1
MF in PoE is completely optional... nothing like how it was in d2.

That thread appears to be in the beta members only area.

Which actually says a lot about your feedback in this thread... You make a lot of assumptions about the loot system without any experience in how it actually works. You're throwing a tantrum over something you haven't tried yet. "This sucks! It's the worst idea ever!" Well... You wouldn't know, would you?

I encourage you to build your characters towards gimping your party; try out the effectiveness of that strategy. See how long they let you stay in the party when you're overwriting their curses and not contributing any damage. See how long they let you stay when you get them killed and then run around grabbing loot. Considering the frequency of loot, you'd have to get them killed a lot to raise your chances at getting anything good. It would most definitely not be worth the time invested.

Yes, if you think an item is valuable, it may be worth risking death to get. No risk, no gain.