Experience Loss Penalty for Dying = Punished and Stuck for Trying New Builds and Abilities

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CetniK wrote:

You don't have to go in the absolutely highest monster area to try out your build...just like with regular play. Also, play more cautiously and defensively.

People tried out builds in D2 without a problem.

Ok, I've gone back and adjusted my build and took out my level one gems. Having much better luck and having uber fun. Also, it seems like I'm not losing as much experience as before, so I'm again progressing nicely.

If I want to try out new stuff, I just go back to Act One.

If there are new abilities I want to try, I just leave the gems in the extra sockets to level up on their own without using them, until they are sufficiently leveled.

I am kind of new here; but just an observation, and question. I see that armors can have up to 6 sockets. A player has Q-W-E-R-T hotkeys, and 3 mouse buttons. That is 8 active skills. While playing through normal, I stuck to a solid 5 skills that I used to progress. When I found a new gem I wanted to explore, I would usually have a slot to put it in and let it gain a few levels before I even tried using the skill.

end games, it seems as though you should be able to equip at least a dozen gems at once. With only 8 skills that you can use in combat, it would seem as though there should be little issue caused by level 1 gems. With the rate of experience gains, it shouldn't take you too long to get the gems to a usable level either.

This is just my impressions of late game, and I have not made it that far yet; so do not feel judged. I am just curious to know if this is a large problem for players.

Does get a little trickier with support gems in the mix, but I never saw it as a huge problem.

Why does there have to be a penalty for dying on other modes besides HC? It doesn't make make any sense at all. Dying over and over to the same thing will cause you to change your tactics to overcome that obstacle. Being punished for playing the game doesn't seem like a good way to go. At least in normal softcore mode.(normal does not mean difficulty)

I think if you want to be "challenged" play a mode where you can lose your items or die perma style.

All I am saying is that I have yet to see or hear anyone really justify having a death penalty in SC. Just play the game, if you die, you die and start back at the last checkpoint and do it again. Being penalized for dying is like being punished for crapping your diaper as a baby.

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reaper2191 wrote:

Being punished for playing the game doesn't seem like a good way to go.

You're not being punished for playing the game. You're being punished for failing in some form. If you or your characters are bad at the game, you don't get to keep bashing away at it until you get lucky and pass the challenging part without paying a price. The price is xp in this case. If you don't want to pay that price, you can improve your character or your own skills on easier parts of the game.

Default isn't "softcore" in any way. It's supposed to be challenging, just like every other league. Calling it that implies it should be easier than Hardcore, and it's not. I've not seen any justification for not having a death penalty in Default.

This isn't the type of game that says "Oh, you died? Just try again! Everyone's a winner!" Instead, it says "Oh, you died?" and then whips you. There is no easy mode.

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reaper2191 wrote:

Why does there have to be a penalty for dying on other modes besides HC? It doesn't make make any sense at all. Dying over and over to the same thing will cause you to change your tactics to overcome that obstacle. Being punished for playing the game doesn't seem like a good way to go. At least in normal softcore mode.(normal does not mean difficulty)

I think if you want to be "challenged" play a mode where you can lose your items or die perma style.

All I am saying is that I have yet to see or hear anyone really justify having a death penalty in SC. Just play the game, if you die, you die and start back at the last checkpoint and do it again. Being penalized for dying is like being punished for crapping your diaper as a baby.

There needs to be some negative effect from dying. Or the thrill of combat goes away. The xp loss is not enough for me, it seems too low to matter. So I play the hardcore ladder.

As I posted earlier, it is hard to screw up a character to the point where it is useless.

Another point some people try to make is that all hardcore players only use builds that are confirmed to work, or overpowered skills.

Well, my current character set are a lightning nova shadow, totem witch and a bow templar with poison arrow.

They were all more or less made with the offline passive tree, by myself as test characters.

As long as you plan a balanced build, with decent damage, and can take a few hits in the last difficulty, you will do quite fine with any class/setup.

I like the idea of a debt to pay off with future exp gains as opposed to losing current exp. In the long run, it may delay your advancement by the same amount, but it "feels less bad" for a lot of players to say "you are still moving forward, but at half speed for the next 2 hours" than to say "you moved back and it's gonna take you an hour to get back to where you were before." Both result in losing an hour worth of exp gains, but the latter feels much shittier subjectively since you're *losing* something rather than gaining it slower.

Then again, I only play HC and event leagues, so I don't care all that much.

I would love to have them bring back the old school death penalties: corpse runs to get back all your gear and with xp loss that can actually delevel you. But alas todays gaming generation just wouldn't be able to handle it.

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solistus wrote:

I like the idea of a debt to pay off with future exp gains as opposed to losing current exp. In the long run, it may delay your advancement by the same amount, but it "feels less bad" for a lot of players to say "you are still moving forward, but at half speed for the next 2 hours" than to say "you moved back and it's gonna take you an hour to get back to where you were before." Both result in losing an hour worth of exp gains, but the latter feels much shittier subjectively since you're *losing* something rather than gaining it slower.

It's the exact opposite for me. Knowing I'll be leveling slow for the next X time would take all my motivation away.

And I'd rather have 30% exp cuts than corpse runs, that was the one thing I hated about D2

xp penalty is fine for me. as you don't get any xp loss shortly after leveling up i do difficult quests or end bosses after a level increase.

what would interest me is how often chars died when reaching mercyless. my shadow has died 75 times up to this stage but after asking in chat i was amazed how small this number is compared to others.

to get your death count just type /deaths in the chat window.