My experience in this game has been nothing but negative and harassive.
"
Zelpo wrote:
"
yuwy wrote:
I think people really don't read the developer manifesto, the issue is that people think
they can 'dumb' down the game by complaining. The issue isn't the game, its YOU.
The whole system is set up to reward the knowledgable. Races are won through skill/daring
and knowledge. If you lack any of the 3, you will never win.
I hope its painfully clear why GGG can never stray from the hardcore arpg mantra. I'm quite
surprised that most people don't get it. It doesnt take an economic genius to understand
that dumbing the game down is not a competitive advantage.
When you stray away from your niche, you need to compete against financial heavyweights.
No sane company would ever do that. You dont see ferarri try to out build and cost down
their cars against toyota. And its the same reason you dont see PoE try to dumb down
and compete against d3/tl2 etc. It should be OBVIOUS.
Now apart from the economics, they have a vision, they stick to that vision. And 'constructive' player feedback is always welcome. Example of constructive feedback:
I think we should tune skill X so that it provides a certain advantage in this case
and a certain weakness in other cases.
Example of retarded feedback:
I want the mob damage reduced, i want the removal of xp penalty, i want my loot instanced.
The problem with the above feedback is that its Totally contrary to the game. Its like
your designing a car and someone asks it to fly. Stop it, just stop being stupid.
Amen Brother.
got my faith in humanity restored..atleast for the moment ;)
I think people really don't read the developer manifesto, the issue is that people think
they can 'dumb' down the game by complaining. The issue isn't the game, its YOU.
The whole system is set up to reward the knowledgable. Races are won through skill/daring
and knowledge. If you lack any of the 3, you will never win.
I hope its painfully clear why GGG can never stray from the hardcore arpg mantra. I'm quite
surprised that most people don't get it. It doesnt take an economic genius to understand
that dumbing the game down is not a competitive advantage.
When you stray away from your niche, you need to compete against financial heavyweights.
No sane company would ever do that. You dont see ferarri try to out build and cost down
their cars against toyota. And its the same reason you dont see PoE try to dumb down
and compete against d3/tl2 etc. It should be OBVIOUS.
Now apart from the economics, they have a vision, they stick to that vision. And 'constructive' player feedback is always welcome. Example of constructive feedback:
I think we should tune skill X so that it provides a certain advantage in this case
and a certain weakness in other cases.
Example of retarded feedback:
I want the mob damage reduced, i want the removal of xp penalty, i want my loot instanced.
The problem with the above feedback is that its Totally contrary to the game. Its like
your designing a car and someone asks it to fly. Stop it, just stop being stupid.
Solo this game is boring as hell now, still no news of new acts ive been waiting for for half a year.
This game is a negative experience for me, if that cant change why stay to play this? Up till now all ive been doing is wait for new acts but they dont come.. so what can i do..
half a year ago act 3 wasn't out...what are you talking about...
- WoW "holds your hand" only for the first levels; after that, all you have is documentation and the Internet, which is 100% necessary for a player that want to be good
- yes, you don't lose XP in WoW :) I'm not sure how it would work, since you know, WoW actually has HARD mobs in it, that WILL kill you repeatedly, and you have to try numerous times until you learn&get better. Much better to have hard bosses and no XP penalty, than faceroll bosses with penalty IMO.
-To encourage Raid Finder groups to persevere, each time an Raid Finder group wipes on a boss fight all players in the group receives a stacking buff that increases health, damage dealt, and healing done by 5% (up to a maximum of 10 stacks). This buff is cleared once the boss has been killed.
Sorry bud, you're stating the obvious but missing the point. I was clearly wrong in assuming that we weren't discussing 'right and wrong' - even though it has no logical bearing on this discussion. It always blows my mind when people try and drag "morality" into a discussion about conduct within game mechanics... Conduct AROUND the game - sure. How you treat people on the forums and what you whisper to them ingame is governed by rules that are outside of the game systems. But we're talking about an ingame system.
I can state categorically that I'm not "on the edge" and I do not feel ANY guilt at all about what amounts to pretending to "steal" virtual objects that do not belong to anyone but the company who created them - we're all just borrowing them and how we play with them is defined by GGG.
You're trying to compare (so called) objective moral conduct to 'rules of play' within a game system. Who cares about soldiers killing people in war or thieves stealing from poor families following a natural disaster? These sort of examples are not even slightly relevant to accepted conduct within a game system (by accepted I mean that the game designers allow for that behaviour) and they are generally only used to add perceived emotional 'weight' to the argument. They have no effect on me, however, in this context because they are irrelevant.
As a blatantly obvious example - you have no problem killing other players in FPS games because that conduct is allowed within the game systems. They provide the mechanism for you to kill other players - you don't have to, but more often than not, you do because you are playing a criminal assassin (for example) who kills people for money.
In the game of Werewolf players LIE and try to KILL other players - within the rules of the game system. They're not allowed to steal the other player's cards (in the cardgame version, let's say) but that's because that rule is not within the game system.
So yes, to state the painfully obvious, it is considered wrong to steal from another person. Within the rules of the game, it is completely fine to take the loot lying on the ground. You don't have to take it, but you're welcome to it, if you want to because you are playing a criminal cutthroat out to serve themselves. The loot doesn't really belong to you anyway - it's a virtual asset owned by GGG that they provide to you for your enjoyment.
I can only assume all the confusion about this occurs because people are less able to divorce reality from games like PoE that have very human looking avatars that move and act 'realistically'. No one seems to have a problem with card and boardgames where the characters are all just pictures on a card or a gameboard - stealing within the game rules is never an issue. There doesn't seem to be any issue with the "morally wrong" behaviour of killing other players in FPS or fighting games either but going any further into that is a different discussion.
I'm not trying to say that you don't have a point, I'm just saying that the point lies somewhere else. If I were to take a guess, I think the real problem is that GGG don't state it out loud and clear - like they do now with the "Hardcore = death" message - that 'stealing' loot from others is allowed and is a part of the game. The reason they don't, in my opinion, is because they, like myself and others, take these things for granted. I guess they're not that obvious to everybody...
In response, I agree with the following post:
"
lososthefish wrote:
This game requires a player to be able to murder a player in town and loot their stash to be more cutthoat and also pvp in maps. There is nothing wrong if a player is an asshole if he is an asshole but if he can grief you and you can't do anything to pay him back it's negative and harassive.
Further more,
Doesn't matter how much you QQ about it, it's a fact.
People will flame us but I feel for you. GGG wants to promote a "cut-throat" feel but in the end what will happen is that casuals will be driven away.
We used to be 6 friends playing. We're all in our 30s with jobs, families etc etc. So you can imagine we take the casual approach, fool around, kill some time, etc etc.
2 out of 6 quit because of being unable to progress past mid-70s due to death penalty.
2 out of 6 quit because they love party play and hate soloing but party loot distribution felt too taxing.
1 is about to quit simply because the others did.
I personally play less and less every day, usually less than 1 hour/day, just run a couple of maps and log out. Mostly because my pals left and soloing maps can only take you that far (enjoyment-wise).
What GGG should also consider is that all those "cut-throat, hardcore" kids have less income to spend on the game compared to us casual oldies. So no only are you driving away potential customers, you drive away those potential customers with the possibly biggest wallets.
POE is VERY well done for a game coming out from a new developer but please be careful or your game might end up barren.
And yes, you can please everyone, make a new league (call it carebear for all I care) without a death penalty and with loot strictly personal (d3 style).
Flame on!
+1
But i've played in d2 with ppl that actually GAVE (gasp!) gear found (normal), if it was for someone's character in the party. Extremely rare to see that here. After all, ggg is trying to force the 'trading game' (i REALLY hate that game).
But i have issues getting gear to be able to solo, and it's not as much fun playing alone. I I do HATE the 'cut-throat' thing, i've found some of MY items almost LOCKED OUT from me clicking it (clicking does nothing). if i'm quick enough and click a few times to be allowed to get the item marked for me, i can get it before someone else does. Many times, that's not the case. That does take away ALOT of fun, as EXTREME FEW ppl love taking other people's stuff, or pk'ing them in-game legally (bandits). That's like inviting all the BANNED people from d2 and encourage them to use their practices here without punishment.
Last edited by computertech82#1006 on May 4, 2013, 6:11:56 PM
PoE does actualy make it easier than most other hack`n slash games to solo,
the crafting is a more powerful tool than many qqers realize.
Besides all the qqing about the RNG within the crafting-system, it actualy lets you create endgame-gear with gg-stats and 5l (rare 6l) which is the end of the line.
If you don`t like grouping just cause you don`t like the loot-distribution, go read up on the Manifesto.
Besides, why are people hating on the loot-system? Cause of WoW and all the WoW-Clones thereafter? BoP-Loot, talking 5 hours every moment something drops, creating artificial loot-tables to distribute loot or like in D3, which makes runnin in a team feel like having 3 more npcs walking around..cause there`s no fucking interaction? Nah, fuck that, your robbin yourself from the exitement of ninjaing...never underestime the good old (oldschool) way to D2-style-ninja-loot.
Last edited by Reclaw#0482 on May 4, 2013, 6:24:17 PM
Sorry bud, you're stating the obvious but missing the point. I was clearly wrong in assuming that we weren't discussing 'right and wrong' - even though it has no logical bearing on this discussion. It always blows my mind when people try and drag "morality" into a discussion about conduct within game mechanics... Conduct AROUND the game - sure. How you treat people on the forums and what you whisper to them ingame is governed by rules that are outside of the game systems. But we're talking about an ingame system.
I can state categorically that I'm not "on the edge" and I do not feel ANY guilt at all about what amounts to pretending to "steal" virtual objects that do not belong to anyone but the company who created them - we're all just borrowing them and how we play with them is defined by GGG.
You're trying to compare (so called) objective moral conduct to 'rules of play' within a game system. Who cares about soldiers killing people in war or thieves stealing from poor families following a natural disaster? These sort of examples are not even slightly relevant to accepted conduct within a game system (by accepted I mean that the game designers allow for that behaviour) and they are generally only used to add perceived emotional 'weight' to the argument. They have no effect on me, however, in this context because they are irrelevant.
As a blatantly obvious example - you have no problem killing other players in FPS games because that conduct is allowed within the game systems. They provide the mechanism for you to kill other players - you don't have to, but more often than not, you do because you are playing a criminal assassin (for example) who kills people for money.
In the game of Werewolf players LIE and try to KILL other players - within the rules of the game system. They're not allowed to steal the other player's cards (in the cardgame version, let's say) but that's because that rule is not within the game system.
So yes, to state the painfully obvious, it is considered wrong to steal from another person. Within the rules of the game, it is completely fine to take the loot lying on the ground. You don't have to take it, but you're welcome to it, if you want to because you are playing a criminal cutthroat out to serve themselves. The loot doesn't really belong to you anyway - it's a virtual asset owned by GGG that they provide to you for your enjoyment.
I can only assume all the confusion about this occurs because people are less able to divorce reality from games like PoE that have very human looking avatars that move and act 'realistically'. No one seems to have a problem with card and boardgames where the characters are all just pictures on a card or a gameboard - stealing within the game rules is never an issue. There doesn't seem to be any issue with the "morally wrong" behaviour of killing other players in FPS or fighting games either but going any further into that is a different discussion.
I'm not trying to say that you don't have a point, I'm just saying that the point lies somewhere else. If I were to take a guess, I think the real problem is that GGG don't state it out loud and clear - like they do now with the "Hardcore = death" message - that 'stealing' loot from others is allowed and is a part of the game. The reason they don't, in my opinion, is because they, like myself and others, take these things for granted. I guess they're not that obvious to everybody...
In response, I agree with the following post:
"
lososthefish wrote:
This game requires a player to be able to murder a player in town and loot their stash to be more cutthoat and also pvp in maps. There is nothing wrong if a player is an asshole if he is an asshole but if he can grief you and you can't do anything to pay him back it's negative and harassive.
Further more,
Doesn't matter how much you QQ about it, it's a fact.
