The whole idea behind the so called “crafting system” in this game is wrong-headed.

"

decoyed wrote:

I like the crafting system. Keeps things from getting predictable and boring.

Hell they could change it and we could all get exactly what we want the first time we try to craft and then become extremely bored as we have nothing further to look forward to as all of our gear is perfect and all loot is rendered useless.

This is a huge strawman proposed by people like you. There are solutions to this problem, you don't have to run out of farming objectives only if the developers allow you to. Full RNG is frustrating and unfair. A game tester from another indie game said it in another topic: "This is obsolete game design in 2013, let it die, there are alternatives".

The socket side of crafting really only needs two tweaks to make it workable:

1. Change Jeweler's Orbs to produce no fewer sockets than before.

2. Change Orbs of Fusing to produce no fewer links than before.

That would eliminate the sadistic aspect of the RNG mechanism and quell the fear and loathing around socket crafting. Getting the socket configuration you need would then just be a matter of time and resources:

1. Pop Jewelers till you get enough sockets.

2. Pop Fusings till you get enough links.

3. Pop Chromatics till you get the right color combo.

The vender recipes for these orbs are cheap and plentiful, and 4-socket items are commonplace. Those who need 5 and 6-socket items are no doubt experienced enough to know where to find them.

The ideas were proposed in several topics.
Like here:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/322624/page/4/#p3082598

With no response.
And obviously with no change going that way.

I've posted, what would make the drawing system on gear more acceptable, several times.

"

RPGs use RND in different contexts and amounts. They RND the amount of damage you do every time and we do not complain about that - because it always has reasonable boundaries.
Imagine what would we say if the damage system would be created like the "crafting" in PoE is. Each time you hit a mob it would roll a bunch of dices with a completely unpredictable outcome - from damage types through the amount to the completely random range and direction - even being able to hurt yourself.
Would we complain?
Would we propose as a solution to rise some results a bit?

So the system itself in its core assumptions is to be changed.
Like we accept some randomness in the damage amount, the system could steel use RND, but not to the amount it does now.
I'm repeating myself but maybe it is good to repeat good proposals again and again.

All the divine, chaos and alteration orbs should be stopped from clearing all your actual suffixes and making that mess we hate.
Instead they should ONLY draw the ONLY ONE suffix - the one you've used them on. So if you've got 5 suffixes in a rare item. Two of them you really like. You use the chaos orb on a third one and you get a new suffix here.

The playability of this new approach would change drastically and punishing level would drop reasonably.
Yet keeping the rnd approach to the crafting.
That's what GGG should really do.
Change the current one-armed bandit - punishing - system to the, steel random, but the more controllable one.

And it's been raged by so called hardcore players, which are just trolls to me.
Unfortunately GGG is actually more interested in their rage than in the proposals.

The system is pathetic.
The results ate 100% the opposite from ones the real aRPG should have.
There is no sense of reward for players efforts and no progress.

All of this is wrong.
And then there is the problem of survivability of mele builds and the fact that you have to be at least 10 levels above the mobs to play fluently (without dying continuously).

The game's been fucked up.

I enjoy the crafting system a lot. Even with the few orbs you get self found, I find it immensely useful. If you didn't get a weapon upgrade in 22 levels, you are quite frankly doing something wrong. Period. There are avenues to upgrades that you are not using. Perhaps you are not transmuting every appropriate white weapon of the latest tier that's dropping for you, I don't know.

I remember when I first leveled up, way back in 2011. I actually experienced something similar, where I didn't get a weapon upgrade for a long, long time. And yes, that's partly bad luck, just like you seem to be having bad luck. But if I had known, at the time, all the things I could have done to get an upgrade, I wouldn't have had that problem.

So in terms of utility of crafting insofar as it lets you get through content and maps, I find it sufficient assuming you have a good build (melee builds need not apply, but that is a more of a problem with melee than with crafting).

In terms of market value, at this point in the default economy yeah it's going to be difficult to get more out of your orbs with crafting than by simply buying things, if your objective is to get mid tier items. Because there are too many mid tier items on the market and they become cheap.

But when it comes to higher tier items, it can be quite efficient, because the prices on such items are exorbitant, and their supply is so limited you might not even find one to buy. Recently I wanted a 400+ ES helmet. I realized such a hat would cost me 5+ exalts. So I threw several hundred alterations and 20 scours and regals at a Ezo Circlet and came away with a 445 ES hat with a total investment of just a little more than 2 exalts.

Not to say crafting couldn't be improved (I find fusings to be terribly designed wrt the psychology of most players for example). But it does work for a lot of things.

"

RogueMage wrote:

The socket side of crafting really only needs two tweaks to make it workable:

1. Change Jeweler's Orbs to produce no fewer sockets than before.

2. Change Orbs of Fusing to produce no fewer links than before.

That would eliminate the sadistic aspect of the RNG mechanism and quell the fear and loathing around socket crafting. Getting the socket configuration you need would then just be a matter of time and resources:

1. Pop Jewelers till you get enough sockets.

2. Pop Fusings till you get enough links.

3. Pop Chromatics till you get the right color combo.

The vender recipes for these orbs are cheap and plentiful, and 4-socket items are commonplace. Those who need 5 and 6-socket items are no doubt experienced enough to know where to find them.

I agree that the socket side of crafting is a bit lacking. You should only have a chance to increase your socket number and link number. I still think that chromatics could be improved by allowing them to only change one of the socket's colors; this would not discourage unique builds that need 4 str gems in their int/dext armor.

There are two other problems with the crafting system though. First, the number of affixes in certain items is lower than in others making some items less rewarding to craft (such as wands). I think they need to balance out the affix pool in items. Second, the vendor recipes could be improved. I find it odd that a 5-linked item is worth a a scroll fragment or a chrom.

"

aimlessgun wrote:

I enjoy the crafting system a lot. Even with the few orbs you get self found, I find it immensely useful. If you didn't get a weapon upgrade in 22 levels, you are quite frankly doing something wrong. Period. There are avenues to upgrades that you are not using. Perhaps you are not transmuting every appropriate white weapon of the latest tier that's dropping for you, I don't know.

I remember when I first leveled up, way back in 2011. I actually experienced something similar, where I didn't get a weapon upgrade for a long, long time. And yes, that's partly bad luck, just like you seem to be having bad luck. But if I had known, at the time, all the things I could have done to get an upgrade, I wouldn't have had that problem.

So in terms of utility of crafting insofar as it lets you get through content and maps, I find it sufficient assuming you have a good build (melee builds need not apply, but that is a more of a problem with melee than with crafting).

In terms of market value, at this point in the default economy yeah it's going to be difficult to get more out of your orbs with crafting than by simply buying things, if your objective is to get mid tier items. Because there are too many mid tier items on the market and they become cheap.

But when it comes to higher tier items, it can be quite efficient, because the prices on such items are exorbitant, and their supply is so limited you might not even find one to buy. Recently I wanted a 400+ ES helmet. I realized such a hat would cost me 5+ exalts. So I threw several hundred alterations and 20 scours and regals at a Ezo Circlet and came away with a 445 ES hat with a total investment of just a little more than 2 exalts.

29 levels with same weapon and im 88. Around 100 chaos in ilvl79 wands and i pretty much alch every imbued >ilvl 73

"

sanleon wrote:

29 levels with same weapon and im 88. Around 100 chaos in ilvl79 wands and i pretty much alch every imbued >ilvl 73

You don't really think someone not getting a wep upgrade from 20 to 40 is in any way comparable to your situation do you? :p

The people who like this system are the ones whom RNG did not decide to slam repeatedly into the ground. Anyone who didn't personally experience the frustration really cannot understand it, because theoretically, even with average luck, this "crafting" system can works out pretty well.

I've personally have been around the lower end of the luck spectrum, but never dipped very low. While I can easily empathize with the people who've hit rock bottom, I still feel motivated enough to keep playing.

The only time I've "crafted" if when I absolutely need a certain color of sockets, flask mods, and other little things like that. Once I used every fusing, alt, jeweler to 4l a glove, and finally got it after at least 30 fusings in total. After that I swore I would never fuse again in my life.

I think one of the issues with this system is the huge chasm between the blessed and the damned. For those around the middle and above on the spectrum, they don't see anything wrong with the system. GGG, who hardly even play their own game, obviously have no idea what it's like. On paper, it seem great because you lose some and you gain some and it eventually evens out. Except, that's just not how it works. Sometime you just lose and lose until you have nothing, even thought you've worked hard for it. Until GGG realize this, they won't change.

"

sanleon wrote:

29 levels with same weapon and im 88. Around 100 chaos in ilvl79 wands and i pretty much alch every imbued >ilvl 73

Yeah, don't craft a wand's affixes, it isn't worth it unless the RNG God loves you.

"

29 levels with same weapon and im 88.

That's WRONG.

"

Around 100 chaos in ilvl79

An how did you get that much. Were you collecting them?
I haven't seen more than about 10-15 chaos orbs and I'm lvl 40.
So I assume the drop rates for them rise unduly for higher level maps and are too low for lower ones - and that's WRONG too.
Getting to 40 level is enough time of play to be in need of drawing rares for ages with no ability to do so.
That's WRONG too.

This only means that not only the mechanics are bad but also the balance.


And even with huge amount of orbs the current system would not be lacking the "slap in the face" component.
It's intrinsic mechanics are punishing.