Game Mechanics are too convoluted with Insufficient Information for Players.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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Aredid wrote:

what do you want?

1. Make it so that the mechanics are better. If it says "10% increased area of effect then it should do that (to the actual thing happening on screen and not to some internal variable) and not something else.
2. Make it properly clear what things do. Like add a radius to skill descriptions of skills with a radius.

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Aredid wrote:

If you want insane amount of in depth information you can just read wiki.

Wiki does not have "insane amount of information". Unfortunately wiki has insufficient amount of information. Example: I want to know how much AoE the 3 Toxic Rain components have. Where do I find that information?

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Aredid wrote:

No reason to describe how integer rounding, server tick rate and other things affect various game mechanics in the game itself.

And where do I find that information? Lets take Elemental Hit. How much inc AoE do I need to get radius 22 if the target already has all elemental ailments on it?

+1

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Zrevnur wrote:

This is in stark contrast to your earlier post? Like "everything that is in PoB and has been in PoB for YEARS should be in the goddamn game itself." https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3388730/page/2#p24997769 So basically you changed your opinion?

You know, I said I was done and I was pretty aggressive in my first foray into this thread....I apologize.

I see your point and tend to agree now. I DID contradict myself and I actually prefer more information to less in-game. So why shouldn't the game provide you with AoE info as well? If PoB can give you a radius, and we assume it is accurate, then why can't the game give you that exact same information so that you can see numerically when you go from 22r to 23r or something like that.

The only thing I can see being a problem in-game is if your attacks get buffed by effects solely on the enemy (the elemental hit example). I feel like something like that would only be possible in a PoB-style setting where you can set theoretical parameters. It wouldn't be able to be calculated as you play in a meaningful way because you would presumably be hitting many different enemies at once, all with different values.

I still feel though that certain information, like r22 vs r23, is meaningless information to have in most cases. It's only important for min/maxing, but for everything else you can physically see whether your AoE is enough for you or not. That was my primary point, that the "on paper" values of many things really don't enhance the vast majority of players' connection with the game. Instead, it detracts them from the game and makes every aspect playing against a spreadsheet.

But if it gets people to use less 3rd party software, then why not have it in the game? As long as that information is not constantly shown and unobtrusive. **I'm thinking along the lines of a PlugY (D2) system, where you can go to your offense/defense tabs and flip a page and get more detailed information. Better game experience for those that WANT that information, and no effect on those that don't.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

The only thing I can see being a problem in-game is if your attacks get buffed by effects solely on the enemy (the elemental hit example). I feel like something like that would only be possible in a PoB-style setting where you can set theoretical parameters. It wouldn't be able to be calculated as you play in a meaningful way because you would presumably be hitting many different enemies at once, all with different values.

They could make the rule clear. That wouldnt even take much effort. Like "18 base radius instead of 10" instead of "80% more AoE radius" - that would allow me to understand how it works.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

I still feel though that certain information, like r22 vs r23, is meaningless information to have in most cases. It's only important for min/maxing, but for everything else you can physically see whether your AoE is enough for you or not. That was my primary point, that the "on paper" values of many things really don't enhance the vast majority of players' connection with the game. Instead, it detracts them from the game and makes every aspect playing against a spreadsheet.

For some players "the game" is creating a build - and for some others its at least an interesting part of the whole package. And for that: No rules - no play.
And you may be looking down on min/maxing. Its more important than many seem to think due to the game having so many multipliers. So if a character has 30 multipliers - no idea if this is the right number - and I waste 1 passive point on each that gives 30 wasted passive points. This can easily be the difference between a working build and a failed build.
Also about the "enough AoE" - strictly speaking for myself: I always want more, its never "enough". The same goes for DPS, survival (etc) of course.

+/-

I'm actually used to using 3rd party tools for my RPG endeavours (except Diablo III, which is so ridiculously easy that I watched all of Dr. House MD once while doing my first season, with my eyes mostly on the second screen where Netflix ran).

Problem is mostly that the game doesn't provide any stats regarding "what changed when I did X in my tree" or "what are the changes when I equip Y instead of Z", which is why I'm so dependent on PoB.

Actually I think that with the level of complexity of creating a viable character (viable = doing anything beyond act 10) I would have given up after finishing the story for the first time.

On the other hand: all of this would be solveable. But the game would need an immense toolkit in game which I don't think could be provided without double the team, so lets face it: Alt+Tab (or, as I do a lot) using a tablet is the way to go.

And now min maxers making a drum circles. We should take action until it's to late mayor!

People call it a spread sheet game but most things aren't really that complicated. It's there if you want but really the game just doesn't tell you anything. It's a wiki driven game like Warframe.

PoE takes it a step further though and doesn't even explain game activities.

My buddy made a great point last time they played.
They were laughing that nothing in the game tells you Elder and Marven drop Atlas stones.