Lost Ark is POE Killer

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

People keep making two different arguments. You can play two different games, I agree! Both games are sub genres of RPG I agree!, but it aint a isometric ARPG. That is an objective fact. My issue is people keep putting the two games in the same context, and even saying LA is like Diablo, or PoE. It's not, full stop. Saying otherwise shows a huge misunderstanding of how to classify genres.

I'm curious. How is Lost Ark not an "action role playing game"?

Also, are you saying POE is like Diablo 3?

I think calling something a action role playing game is a really weak descriptor and needs reconsidered, because it says nothing to compare and contrast maps, micro quests, crafting differences, gear acquisition, leveling, pvp centric vs PvP, mass raid drops vs solo play, quest Xp vs grind xp, pay shop vs mechanical play.

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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DamageIncorporated wrote:

People keep making two different arguments. You can play two different games, I agree! Both games are sub genres of RPG I agree!, but it aint a isometric ARPG. That is an objective fact. My issue is people keep putting the two games in the same context, and even saying LA is like Diablo, or PoE. It's not, full stop. Saying otherwise shows a huge misunderstanding of how to classify genres.

I'm curious. How is Lost Ark not an "action role playing game"?

Also, are you saying POE is like Diablo 3?

I think calling something a action role playing game is a really weak descriptor and needs reconsidered, because it says nothing to compare and contrast maps, micro quests, crafting differences, gear acquisition, leveling, pvp centric vs PvP, mass raid drops vs solo play, quest Xp vs grind xp, pay shop vs mechanical play.

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

Ok, so with all the Lost Ark hype I have given it a go.

Played about 10-15 hrs so far.

It seems incredibly boring. Just way too many "mini quests"... I spend my time just pressing "G" to progress quests dialgues and running from quest NPC to quest NPC.

I hear end-game is where it's at... so I'm going to slog it out and hopefully it gets better. But so far, first impressions are "boring as f**k".

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rekikyo wrote:

I think calling something a action role playing game is a really weak descriptor and needs reconsidered, because it says nothing to compare and contrast maps, micro quests, crafting differences, gear acquisition, leveling, pvp centric vs PvP, mass raid drops vs solo play, quest Xp vs grind xp, pay shop vs mechanical play.

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

Some people focus on differences, some focus on similarities. Yes, an "action role playing game" is a weak descriptor but the core gameplay is the same in all ARPGs. Players spam their abilities to blow up monster packs in an isometric view. Games can adds all types of systems to the core but it is the core that defines the genre.

If games have the same core gameplay, people are going to compare those games. Diablo doesn't have anything like Betrayal or Incursion and all the other leagues but people are still going to compare POE to Diablo. Lost Ark has all the extra MMORPG content and has the core ARPG gameplay. I think that is why Lost Ark is so successful right now. It is a double threat--you can blow shit up and go fishing.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

Some people focus on differences, some focus on similarities. Yes, an "action role playing game" is a weak descriptor but the core gameplay is the same in all ARPGs. Players spam their abilities to blow up monster packs in an isometric view

Nah, ARPG is "wider" than that. The industry is labeling Skyrim, The Witcher and games like that as an "ARPGs", not to mention Borderlands. The ARPG genre has nothing to do with an isometric view.

Even though so-called Diablo-clones (PoE, Grim Dawn and whatnot) are ARPGs, I would put them in a certain sub-genre; either 'dungeon crawlers', even though that sub-genre has been watered out too, or 'Hack'n Slash'.

Lost Ark fits more into a classic MMO. Sure, it may be an "MMO ARPG", but it is far from a classic 'Hack'n Slash' game. When the better part of your XP gains comes from quests - and not from slaying monsters, it's hard to fit PoE and Lost Ark into the same (sub-)genre.

Don't take this as an attack or critique against Lost Ark, because the game seems solid and I wish it all the best.

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Phrazz wrote:

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zakalwe55 wrote:

Some people focus on differences, some focus on similarities. Yes, an "action role playing game" is a weak descriptor but the core gameplay is the same in all ARPGs. Players spam their abilities to blow up monster packs in an isometric view

Nah, ARPG is "wider" than that. The industry is labeling Skyrim, The Witcher and games like that as an "ARPGs", not to mention Borderlands. The ARPG genre has nothing to do with an isometric view.

Even though so-called Diablo-clones (PoE, Grim Dawn and whatnot) are ARPGs, I would put them in a certain sub-genre; either 'dungeon crawlers', even though that sub-genre has been watered out too, or 'Hack'n Slash'.

Lost Ark fits more into a classic MMO. Sure, it may be an "MMO ARPG", but it is far from a classic 'Hack'n Slash' game. When the better part of your XP gains comes from quests - and not from slaying monsters, it's hard to fit PoE and Lost Ark into the same (sub-)genre.

Don't take this as an attack or critique against Lost Ark, because the game seems solid and I wish it all the best.

Well, if ARPG is "wider", can't Lost Ark fall into that genre? The industry is labeling Skyrim as an ARPG? Source? My industry source, PC Gamer, labels Lost Ark as an ARPG and directly compares Lost Ark to POE and Diablo 3.

https://www.pcgamer.com/how-does-lost-ark-compare-to-diablo-3-and-path-of-exile/

From article: "There's nothing an ARPG loves more than a big fight, except perhaps rummaging through the corpses that are left over for a snazzier pair of shoes. So, with Lost Ark having recently entered the fray as a major contender to the ARPG throne, I thought it might be fun to toss it in a pit with the genre's other big-hitters of the last decade, namely Diablo 3 and Path of Exile, and let them duke it out in a series of arbitrary, but lethal, challenges. Which game has the loveliest loot, or the most satisfying skills? Which best conveys the feeling of turning a god into jam with the click of a mouse?

The plan is to compare how all three games handle different aspects of the core ARPG formula. It's a general comparison of broad-stroke systems, rather than an in-depth analysis of how each game handles, say, individual class-types."

I wouldn't use where XP gains come from to define the genre. XP gains are not the big reward. Loot is. In Lost Ark, you can dungeon crawl to get better loot. I heard melee skills in Lost Ark are fun. So maybe it can be called a hack and slash, too. Maybe even more so than POE because everyone knows about the state of POE melee.

Oh, I don't care if people critique Lost Ark if the complaint is valid. But people who say that Lost Ark can't be compared to POE because they are 100% "completely different" will tilt me.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

I think calling something a action role playing game is a really weak descriptor and needs reconsidered, because it says nothing to compare and contrast maps, micro quests, crafting differences, gear acquisition, leveling, pvp centric vs PvP, mass raid drops vs solo play, quest Xp vs grind xp, pay shop vs mechanical play.

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

Some people focus on differences, some focus on similarities. Yes, an "action role playing game" is a weak descriptor but the core gameplay is the same in all ARPGs. Players spam their abilities to blow up monster packs in an isometric view. Games can adds all types of systems to the core but it is the core that defines the genre.

If games have the same core gameplay, people are going to compare those games. Diablo doesn't have anything like Betrayal or Incursion and all the other leagues but people are still going to compare POE to Diablo. Lost Ark has all the extra MMORPG content and has the core ARPG gameplay. I think that is why Lost Ark is so successful right now. It is a double threat--you can blow shit up and go fishing.

If you consider a description that weak as a good description of the grind, I’m just going to laugh you off. Far more xp comes from questing in Lost Ark than grinding by far. Almost all character stats come from questing. To say it’s just smashing buttons also means you’ve never done their bosses.

Even in Poe, button mashing really doesn’t win, especially when doing more complicated but powerful builds using niche uniques.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

I think calling something a action role playing game is a really weak descriptor and needs reconsidered, because it says nothing to compare and contrast maps, micro quests, crafting differences, gear acquisition, leveling, pvp centric vs PvP, mass raid drops vs solo play, quest Xp vs grind xp, pay shop vs mechanical play.

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

Some people focus on differences, some focus on similarities. Yes, an "action role playing game" is a weak descriptor but the core gameplay is the same in all ARPGs. Players spam their abilities to blow up monster packs in an isometric view. Games can adds all types of systems to the core but it is the core that defines the genre.

If games have the same core gameplay, people are going to compare those games. Diablo doesn't have anything like Betrayal or Incursion and all the other leagues but people are still going to compare POE to Diablo. Lost Ark has all the extra MMORPG content and has the core ARPG gameplay. I think that is why Lost Ark is so successful right now. It is a double threat--you can blow shit up and go fishing.

If you consider a description that weak as a good description of the grind, I’m just going to laugh you off. Far more xp comes from questing in Lost Ark than grinding by far. Almost all character stats come from questing. To say it’s just smashing buttons also means you’ve never done their bosses.

Even in Poe, button mashing really doesn’t win, especially when doing more complicated but powerful builds using niche uniques.

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rekikyo wrote:

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

I think calling something a action role playing game is a really weak descriptor and needs reconsidered, because it says nothing to compare and contrast maps, micro quests, crafting differences, gear acquisition, leveling, pvp centric vs PvP, mass raid drops vs solo play, quest Xp vs grind xp, pay shop vs mechanical play.

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

Some people focus on differences, some focus on similarities. Yes, an "action role playing game" is a weak descriptor but the core gameplay is the same in all ARPGs. Players spam their abilities to blow up monster packs in an isometric view. Games can adds all types of systems to the core but it is the core that defines the genre.

If games have the same core gameplay, people are going to compare those games. Diablo doesn't have anything like Betrayal or Incursion and all the other leagues but people are still going to compare POE to Diablo. Lost Ark has all the extra MMORPG content and has the core ARPG gameplay. I think that is why Lost Ark is so successful right now. It is a double threat--you can blow shit up and go fishing.

If you consider a description that weak as a good description of the grind, I’m just going to laugh you off. Far more xp comes from questing in Lost Ark than grinding by far. Almost all character stats come from questing. To say it’s just smashing buttons also means you’ve never done their bosses.

Even in Poe, button mashing really doesn’t win, especially when doing more complicated but powerful builds using niche uniques.

Again XP doesn't matter. Loot does. At a certain level, XP is not the primary concern.

I don't understand your point. Grinding is implicit in ARPGs.

Well, you have to push buttons in the correctly order. Are you saying you don't have to push buttons or press more than 1 button in Lost Ark?

Button mashing was important in POE with flasks. But now, POE even simpler. Maybe POE is not ARPG anymore. Where is the action when you can just hold down the right click mouse button?

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rekikyo wrote:

There are so many factors that separate games like Diablo and poe from Lost Ark that there’s no way they should be compared to each other. I mean… the adventure log completion in Lost Ark is one of the most painful parts of the game (especially getting mob drop completion and hidden stories), that those quests alone makes questing more painful in just one zone than the entirety of Poe’s questing.

And yet, a professional game reviewer compared Lost Ark to Diablo and POE. Again, you have no credibility and can be laughed off.

https://www.pcgamer.com/how-does-lost-ark-compare-to-diablo-3-and-path-of-exile/

Also you said Resident Evil Village has the same genre tags as Lost Ark and POE on Steam. You make stuff up and have no creditability.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

From article: "There's nothing an ARPG loves more than a big fight, except perhaps rummaging through the corpses that are left over for a snazzier pair of shoes. So, with Lost Ark having recently entered the fray as a major contender to the ARPG throne, I thought it might be fun to toss it in a pit with the genre's other big-hitters of the last decade, namely Diablo 3 and Path of Exile, and let them duke it out in a series of arbitrary, but lethal, challenges. Which game has the loveliest loot, or the most satisfying skills? Which best conveys the feeling of turning a god into jam with the click of a mouse?

The plan is to compare how all three games handle different aspects of the core ARPG formula. It's a general comparison of broad-stroke systems, rather than an in-depth analysis of how each game handles, say, individual class-types."

I wouldn't use where XP gains come from to define the genre. XP gains are not the big reward. Loot is. In Lost Ark, you can dungeon crawl to get better loot. I heard melee skills in Lost Ark are fun. So maybe it can be called a hack and slash, too. Maybe even more so than POE because everyone knows about the state of POE melee.

Oh, I don't care if people critique Lost Ark if the complaint is valid. But people who say that Lost Ark can't be compared to POE because they are 100% "completely different" will tilt me.

Here’s the problem with you mindset: Gear is CERTAIN from those bosses/ dungeons. It’s not loot. It’s common drops even at end game. The only challenge is honing and doing quests to gain stats like charisma and wisdom. Any dungeon boss is soloable, and map bosses don’t require anything but participating.

P S Melee skills are only fun in that they single skill 1 shot every 10-14 seconds