3.17 - Disappointed in the huge increase in grind, atlas + bossing bad design

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Shagsbeard wrote:

You're literally complaining about "grind" to a game company that has "Grind" in its name.

Wow, never heard that one before....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8h2qnRBzR0&ab_channel=azza1200

Stop making excused for horrible game design. It's something developers (not just GGG) have been doing to players for years now all in the name to increase /timeplayed metrics, sell MTX etc...

No one is asking for anything for free and quick but people need to stop normalizing initiatives that consume way more time than needed to enjoy aspects of a game.
It's just going to drive people away in the end.

In regard to the topic; I find map sustain fine, but I also heavily invested in whatever I could get for sustain.
The bossing thing I totally agree with. I don't like the changes in that regard.

The new atlas is less complicated than the old one but far less friendly to new/average players progressing due to requirements to kill endgame bosses before getting a single voidstone.

Perhaps thats why we are seeing a huge dropoff in players.

but you dont have to kill any boss to get to t16 maps, before you had to kill 4 bosses to have t16 maps. its faster and easier to get to t16 maps and to get to the point where half ur atlas is t16 maps, which was the end state of our previous atlas.

we get way more passive power up front. its far more friendly to new players than it was before.


theres not a huge drop off. some people have gone to play lost ark.

I'd call half the players in a week a big drop. Used to get 40% drop by 1 month.

Killing Maven and Uber Elder is not new player friendly.

Again, just not in the same world.

you dont have to kill maven or uber elder.


you have more t16 maps on ur atlas and have more passive power juice on ur atlas right now without killing maven or uber elder than you did with 32 watchstones from killing 32 conquerors in the previous version.

You dont 'have' to do anything.

To get more than 4 Tier 16 maps you have to kill exponentially harder bosses than conquerors.

To complete your atlas you used to have to run conquerors only, which were quite accessible.

Now you have to do Maven and Uber to complete atlas.

The new system is again, much simpler, but MUCH harder. There isnt even a valid comparison between old and new systems.

Hmmm... My experience differs. The new bosses actually seem way easier than expected, and certainly not "exponentially harder" than Conquerors. And nowhere near as hard as Maven or Sirus.

I've never beaten Maven before, haven't even gotten close to her this league, and yet I have more tier 16 maps on my atlas than ever before. Seems a whole lot friendlier to me.

What grind? There are already a handul of naturally existing T16s and obtaining 1-2 voidstones turns a huge chunk of your atlas into T16s. With the new kirac + scouting reports and atlas (no watchstones), its significantly faster and easier to complete your atlas. The new bosses are cool but way too easy. I am actually really disappointed that they made these really cool fights that might be challenging if you are playing on a 2-link with your eyes closed.

You also don't "need" to have a full atlas of T16s. You wanted this with watchstones because it increased your awakener level, now it doesn't really matter unless you want T16 copies of the maps that aren't T16 with 2 voidstones equipped.

It took average 35 or so maps I think to farm Sirus. 28 for one of the new bosses is okay - I wish the sub-boss had better loot. But, its important to note that these influenced maps give insane loot. Every 2-3 alch and go maps I am walking out with a full inventory of scarabs. Its just absurd. 30 maps running the new influenced maps is significantly more rewarding than an entire sirus cycle.

Overall, the revamp to the atlas and passive tree have resulted in a much more streamlined end game. OP is worrying about things that are either irrelevant (who cares about 4 voidstones, going from 2 to 4 voidstones doesn't help you sustain t16s) or not taking into account important factors (complaining about boss loot and not the inventory full of scarabs you get every few maps LMAO).

I will add that I have concerns with the atlas tree. Yes there are insanely powerful nodes and offers a lot of customisation which is great, but its quite expensive to respec. With the old regions and unchartered realms, I could pick up the nodes I wanted for 2-4 points. If I wanted to change..I use like 2-4 orbs of unmaking. I might do this when changing strategies or after saving up lots of boss fragments/maps and wanting to run shaper/elder / guardian maps.

All I can add to this Voidstone and favoured map issue is this:

When I had two Voidstones I was consistently getting more red maps, favoured or not.

Now that I have four socketed Voidstones I'm getting less red maps and favoured maps, but more white and yellow maps.

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trixxar wrote:

You dont 'have' to do anything.

To get more than 4 Tier 16 maps you have to kill exponentially harder bosses than conquerors.

To complete your atlas you used to have to run conquerors only, which were quite accessible.

Now you have to do Maven and Uber to complete atlas.

The new system is again, much simpler, but MUCH harder. There isnt even a valid comparison between old and new systems.

I can say to you i failed to kill Drox and almost failed lightning one and i killed all 4 new bosses with more than 4 portals left in each, for me conquerors is real challenge somehow now, so 2 atlas stones was super easy, didn't tried Maven or Uber yet.