[3.24]The Arachnophobia Allstars|100% Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 50M

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oskurwensyn wrote:
Hi again Chromino!
I manage to pretty successfully copy your build into the std - so much success, that i dont know what would be bis for 2nd ring, cuz i got even too much reservation - plz dont mind underleveled gems, wrong flask etc.
Could you share some advices if you got a time?

https://pastebin.com/EN4MjAx7

Tyvm, and gl!


Hi oskurwensyn,

sorry that I overlooked your post.
With these nice rings I would get a seconnd helmet with "fires 2 more projectiles" or take in tempest shield (instead reckoning), and bastion of hope, and go for fullblock. Take like in the updated pob wicked ward and ar+es mastery for uppowered recharge.
Of course you can also change the reservation mastery to increased aura effects or take somewhere else another pasive instead with the rings.
Or take instead one unset ring for a skillgemslot.

Almost b.i.s. !! And very nice gear!
Last edited by Chromino on Oct 25, 2021, 4:35:15 AM
Hello!
just wanted to ask is there much difference in survivability and clear speed between Vatinas spiders HoP build and this version?
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Spartan1407 wrote:
Hello!
just wanted to ask is there much difference in survivability and clear speed between Vatinas spiders HoP build and this version?

You can read the difference between the 2 build at page 50.
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Spartan1407 wrote:
Hello!
just wanted to ask is there much difference in survivability and clear speed between Vatinas spiders HoP build and this version?


Hi Spartan407,

this build is build up on Vatinas (and hitmantb and Shadowtitan's) older builds in many components like basic guardiangear shield aegis aurora, but tries to optimize the pathing further with clusters and more keynotes and a lot different skills like grace and frostshield.

- In clear speed the HoA has 5-7 long ranged 4x splitting (or for blight maps also forking projectiles) hitting 20 up to 70 targets with each projectile hitting for 6-7 M and more (up to 14M).

- The Hop has 4-5 melee minions, no splash, only slam with cooldown, each HoP slams with around 1.4 M.

- HoA has 100-200% added movement speed, HoP (slow) cyclone

This build reaches fullgeared 7.6 k es, buffed 3.1 k es on 75%/60% full 100% damagereductions block, uses with armour+ es mastery powered up wicked ward and divine shield.

The HoP build offers around 7.5 k es and buffed 1.8k es/ block 75%/75% glancing blows low 35% damagereductions and divine shield when I'm informed correct.

HoP offers better meatshields and moving of cycloning, in all other stats HoA build offers more defences and much more damage.

Like freekiix writes, on page 50 I tried to compare some more stats much more detailed in 3.14:

Spoiler

1) 70000 armour of Vatinas build of HoP against 140000 armour this HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. This is important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 140000 Ar of HoA is fitting much better with often 40% more physical damage reduction than only 70000 Ar).

2) 1400 against 2800 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better

3) HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony and virulences and 15 witherstacks, HoP offers only reduced cooldowns on medium clusters for their attacks.

4) HoP Sentinels dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, and the crawler has much more area of damage with his long ranged projectiles also. You can scale up with 55-60 virulences easy against a small loss of added quality of life on one medium cluster or without double curses. Then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars reach 3 mill. damage more as a typical HoP set-up. With cyclone you can move in small melee range, with spellecho of this Arachnophilia HoA build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.3 seconds to cast 2 of them. So cyclone is a bit smoother in movement.

5) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more, minimum around 4 times more total damage on mobs like in delve, blight, delirium, rituals or other high density areas. Count 4 x dps in mapping with it's tail projectilesattack (it is the HoA Standard attack with no cooldown) and pierce support and helmetenchant offers another 2x projectiles. HoP charge and slam attacks have cooldowns and only a small area of damage and no longe range. HoP offers no splash, only small melee area of damage and no pierce.

(For better comparing with equal defences of both builds count "hatred" in place of it's defensive "grace" for HoA in: 11-13 mill. total shaper- damage. HoP cannot obtain more auras because of not enough reduced manareservation. HoP must change gear, lower it's HoP-supports, change around 7 passives and use a different annoint to get more mana for another set-up. HoA has the possibility to switch in a second Circle of Nostalgia for more mana and dps and 8 up to 14 mill. damage shaper- singletarget damage and looses only frostwall for around 10.5 mill. damage or one Quality of life-skill and two passives (like raze and pillage or rotten claws) for around 12.9 mill. shaper-damage and 160 mill. mapping-damage.)

HoP is in single target around equal or around 10% increased damage, but only when The Arachnophobiacs are using their most defensive setup with 2-3 x more ehp than the HoP. The HoP movement is 60% slower and has less damageuptimes (first you have to reach melee the target with it cycloning). HoA can also change pierce if it is wanted for better singletarget, switch ring or support with hatred or freeding frenzy, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for raising damage in this build.

6) The weak spots like degens, aoe and not blockable hits are equal and are the same in both builds. HoA has in his setup an additional sulphurflask for the cooldowns of time of need and vaal discipline.
And of course don't forget numbers and factors of total damage taken, multiple mapmods, crits, etc. :

The more dodge, vaal grace, pantheon, evasion, phasing, overcapped resistances when you are debuffed and doublecurse (when you choose a defensive second one) of the allstars are not only a bit better than the very, very fine build of Vatinas, to reduce total damage taken:

For example you get often multiples damagetypes and sources, degen and hits or aoe at the same time of one boss or one mob and you have to count the total damage taken in these encounters and moments. And here the Agonyca Allstars are shining and charming hot with double and tripple ehp for all damage types.

7) I don't want forget two advantages of HoP in ehp and defence here at this comparing the tails and arms:

-the Sentinels can take damage as meat shield and can taunt. But only melee and they die fast in some encounters, maps and bosses and there are some disadvantages in playstyle as wrote before and in the build of the allstars spoiler "HoP". So for example HoP have also to deal with chained projectiles and so this advantage is in some other situations very dangerous.
When HoA takes Summon Phantasms-Support in the Allstars have 11 taunting and hindering and meatshielding Phantasms-minions too.

- you can move while cycloning. But as said before, for hard bosses the 2 possibilties of HoA's hybrid style: melee and ranged raising the Herald, is best to deal with high lvl 10x maven invitations, shaper, ueberatziri etc.) and with HoA you can easy switch to cyclone also. The Agonyca Allstars are able to stand outside high damage areas of bosses and stack the virulences ranged. Old HoP must cyclone melee in these damagepeaks.
When the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars take "storm brand" in they obtain almost the same freedom of movement and still don't need to to move into melee distance.

8) Fortify's 20% damagereduction of melee HoP is a minimum of 50% weaker compared against HoA divergent frost shield 30% dr and it's 60% dr against ranged attacks, and the added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs.
Combined with bodyguards/ knockback frostshield's 60% dr get very often op, and much better than fortify's 20% dr.
And also HoP has to attack and hit to trigger fortify, frostshield is triggered also ranged on stun and block and don't need to hit or attack.

9) Other managuardian builds get into problems when their molten shell, guardian skill or vaal discipline is in cooldown - the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars start then with their dodge and spelldodge of vaal grace and withering step for these cooldowns.

10) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, evasion, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, double curses, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc.


Overall

Total the Arachnophobia Allstars have double and tripple ehp against all damagetypes with their 17 walls of defences, and against physical damage quadruple ehp.

You have circa 4× more multipletarget damage and 3x more mappingspeed and 2x more substain / es on block. You loose around 5% singletarget but you can easy balance your damage up if you want to.



You can try both herald-styles easy because both gears work on both herald-mainskills.
Switch perhaps only cyclone with ball-liightnings and circle-rings.

Both styles are very much fun and Vatinas guide is amazing and very well written and explaining all important mechanics quite good!
Last edited by Chromino on Oct 25, 2021, 6:49:37 AM
I think i will go for tempest shield to get full block, tho i need a little bit more mana, so guess i can run for 75% helm enchant instead of 60. When im done i will post again to share resoults, but, atm i got 2 more questions.
1st - degen and dots - seems quite painfull - am i doing something wrong or its just a way it is and not much to do about it? I mean im not dying, but its as close as can get , so any way to improve it ? What about avoidance?
2nd - dunno if them mine unexperience, or what, but i cant keep my spiders alive, after spawning them on map, they die (? not sure there, just they disappear at some point and need to recast them - need to wait untill hoa wears off, so i can kill them with basic attack ) - any better way to do it? seems highly unpractical, but since and yet testing, meaby there is way around it :)
Cheers Chromino and keep up good work!
Thank you for the extensive reply!
I will probably switch to HoAg version since im a bit bored and constant hop spawning. :)
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oskurwensyn wrote:
I think i will go for tempest shield to get full block, tho i need a little bit more mana, so guess i can run for 75% helm enchant instead of 60. When im done i will post again to share resoults, but, atm i got 2 more questions.
1st - degen and dots - seems quite painfull - am i doing something wrong or its just a way it is and not much to do about it? I mean im not dying, but its as close as can get , so any way to improve it ? What about avoidance?
2nd - dunno if them mine unexperience, or what, but i cant keep my spiders alive, after spawning them on map, they die (? not sure there, just they disappear at some point and need to recast them - need to wait untill hoa wears off, so i can kill them with basic attack ) - any better way to do it? seems highly unpractical, but since and yet testing, meaby there is way around it :)
Cheers Chromino and keep up good work!



Hi oskurwensyn,

very, very interesting questions!!

You can activate the 2. passive 8% increased reservation efficiency next to sovereignity also.
Yes, 75% on helmet are much better of course.

Against dot switch also in wicked ward in combination with ar/es mastery buffed recharge, it helps often fine op with 3k es/ sec! (PoB numbers are bugged for ar/ es mastery, they almost double es-racharge in the allstars build). But you cannot facetank dot-dealers, yes.
We have sulphur flask, vaal discipline, divine shield, some reg, wicked ward against dot-damagetype. Ordinary that is enough.

I am running in the moment with bastion of hope, but it's possible with 2 passives spellblock or rumi's flask to change it out and try time of need again, with it cws is also much better triggering than cwdt.
But divine shield and wicked ward are already very strong. Only in multiple physical maps or multiple elementaldamagemaps with curses they becomes threatening.

https://pastebin.com/A1NGNapQ

Fullblock vs Glancing blows

Damagereductions fullblock:


(50-)60+75/2% × 100% dr= average 6750% dr
with bastion of hope 2/ 5 sec 15%= 9% more/2 average= 7150 dr and more continious attackblock 2/5 sec

Damagereductions Glancing blows:

75/75% × 35% = average 2625% dr, but 7-12% more es/ block

Advice: in 3.16 with nice blockclusters and masteries use fullblock with 200% more average damagereductions of course!

Time of need vs Bastion of Hope

Time of need

- Most important: you don't need cwdt and can use cws
- 80% permament curseresistances is huge in cursed mapmods and frees up a bottle-suffix
- each 4 seconds 2.5k es regenrations (equal to 7.5% es-reg average) is great too

Bastion of Hope

- Most important: stun-immunities raises from 60% to 100%: these forces us to prefer cwdt over cws - a huge downside as CI, cws is much better to use full level 20 frostshield (20-39% damagereductions, 4k/es sec) and sniper's mark aototriggered
- You get 2% attackblock on the transferpoint
- You get average 8-13% more attackblock
- You can switch in 2 passives more because of 10% spellblock triggered


For the spiders all tipps are in the spoiler "blizzard". They have 30 sec uptime and then you have to respawn them again. When you map fast they refresh themself because the poisoned kills often count for yourself. With stormbrand/ frostshield you can raise them everytime, only some heistmembers are fast keen as you on the worms, hehe. Or switch to triggerwand/ coldironpoint dagger, but arakaali's offers most damage when your spiders are up and offers much more mapclearingspeed.

Thank you very much!
Last edited by Chromino on Oct 25, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
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RestInPieces wrote:
Thanks for the build, having fun with it even with my terrible budget! Just managed to sell some rares and get a skin of the loyal and leveling is great.

(Edit: didn't see your previous answer thnx :))

Do you use whirling blades for bastion of hope 10% block?


Hi RestInPieces!

I am still trying out in standard which path is better, both ascendancies works and I started a spoiler page 50 "Fullblock vs Glacing blows, Bastion of hope vs Time of need".
With 2 passives more you get also 60% block / 75% spellblock with time of need. Most important is that cws triggers much better with time of need than cwdt with bastion of hope.
The curseresistances are strong, the es-regenartions are great, in the momemt I have the tendency to use time of need and loose the 10-15% average attackblock of bastion of hope instead.


https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3019705/page/50

I tried a lot attackblocktriggers for bastion of hope and flicker strike with teleports, movementbuff, virulences is best for me personally. Whirling blades is gfast too, but targeting is a bit more difficult. But at last you can go without these triggered 10% attackblock also. I make some more testings and will feedback soon more about the question, path and decision of need or hope. :-)
Last edited by Chromino on Oct 25, 2021, 11:03:05 AM
Hello, this is amazing guide! Can this build go from league start?
Hello, this is amazing guide! Can this build go from league start?

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