[3.24]The Arachnophobia Allstars|100% Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 50M

"

kileras12 wrote:

"

Hey Kileras,

...

Hello, thank you for your answer. I still wonder tho why are you using golden rule jewel? Hwo do you proc bleed for amor? In PoB I dont see any physical dmg or chance to bleed with ball lightning

Hello Kileras,

the jewel golden rule is most important (and almost mandatory) to get fast and substain high stacks of virulences for the crawler.

To get virulences, you need chance to poison (added chaos damage on ring circle of nostalgia and poison support), cast speed (spell echo and gmp) and very often hitting skills like ball-lightning (other skills hit much less, ball-lightning is like an slow and piercing aoe-effect-projectile). Then "poison you inflict is reflected to you" doubles for the counting for HoA the poison stacks (counts in the reflected poison/ virulences stacks and as a CI you are immune to them) and as a result the virulences raises to 50 and more with enough cast speed.

When you want more than around 30, 40 virulences singletarget for lot of damage you need the golden rule. Without you will get not 50 virulences in singletarget situations and only while mapping with a lot of poisoned mobs. Mapping is possible without when there are many mobs, but singletarget golden rule increases numbers of the stacks of virulences, substain them and increases HoA damage very much.

Bleeding we ourself do not inflict, only the minions procc bleedings, and we are not immune to bleeding. We don't procc it and don't get the armour. We would need physical damage, chance to bleed (vulnerability would be enough) and something against too much reflected taken bleeding damage (besides the antibleeding flask) to get the increased armour.

(Now your ring has with 18 catalysts 23 rmr, I think it will raise with 20 catalysts to 24 rmr, yuchuu. Very interesting, too.)

"

Kaevar wrote:

"

Chromino wrote:

"

Kaevar wrote:

Hey. yeah, it definitely helps. If I could maybe sugest one thing - it would benefit this guide to add a chapter about "how this build works". For new/inexperienced players like me, it took some time to understand which parts of the build are responsible for what. A chapter just stating "xxx is our dmg for single target, yy is AoE clear. Defense is armor+block, and it is boosted by ZZZ. ES gain is based on XYZ". Right now this info is spread around and putting it somewhere in the beggining would help IMO

...

Hi Kaevar,

after "index of defences" now "index of offensives" is added to the build too. It explains the offensives and factors of damage in one , compared to the defences short ( ;-) ) chapter and is not splitted into different small spoilers. It has to be improved, but is a starting of showing the mechanics of the miniondamage.

Thank you again for the advice to add guides how the build works and mechanics summaries.

Woot! :)



Now just need a bunch of Divines. 'Cause I'm never lucky with just a couple.

At this point, I think I'm pretty much done for gearing.

Hey grim, I believe I'm the one who sold you the 12% helm. I wanted a mana reservation helm which I was finally able to buy.

So now i can go 2b,2g,2r for max dps during bosses (Predator instead of pierce for bosses) or else vile toxins over predator.

I was able to score a sick triple watchers eye for pretty cheap I feel.


4% increased maximum Energy Shield
4% increased maximum Life
6% increased maximum Mana
+8% chance to Evade Attack Hits while affected by Grace
31% faster start of Energy Shield Recharge while affected by Discipline
Gain 9% of Maximum Mana as Extra Maximum Energy Shield while affected by Clarity

Hope that faster start is as OP as i believe it will be.

I'm wondering how different is this to the HoP/Spiders build which uses near identical gear? DPS looks similar, has anyone played both? I'm getting a bit bored of the HoP character but not sure if this is the answer as I don't want to re-roll a new character.

"

grimjack68 wrote:

Woot! :)

Now just need a bunch of Divines. 'Cause I'm never lucky with just a couple.

At this point, I think I'm pretty much done for gearing.

Spoiler

That is best geared, yes! Top dressed, high skilled!
Very, very nice!

And going with 55 virulences is great, too!
And you are with lvl 98 in ranking of Agony guardian builds too on poeninja! Big Congrats!

Hope you have a lot of arachnophilia, hehe!

(How would you compare the allstars to other Herald builds? You played some of them in lasts leagues too. Hope the small eightlegged ones charmed and enjoyed!

And did had problems with too many freezes/ chills/stuns? I am not sure if Hibernator on cluster or Soul of the Brine King in Pantheon is important or less important against cold ailments.)

"

piszczel wrote:

I'm wondering how different is this to the HoP/Spiders build which uses near identical gear? DPS looks similar, has anyone played both? I'm getting a bit bored of the HoP character but not sure if this is the answer as I don't want to re-roll a new character.

Hi piszczel,

hehe, both are a lot of fun.
In the spoiler "the dirty scorpion tail" you find a spoiler "herald of purity" where some differences in playstyle and tankyness are listed. You can try easy the different setups.

I personally prefer and love the ball-lightnings before cyclone and the better tankyness, the hybrid and ranged attacking and more layers of defences of this build. For melee style HoP Vatinas great build has advantages (but you can use HoA also with cyclone).

I switched from HoP to HoA because of these differences and more possible combinations, variations and specialisations with the clusters and skills.

"

Chromino wrote:

hehe, both are a lot of fun.
In the spoiler "the dirty scorpion tail" you find a spoiler "herald of purity" where some differences in playstyle and tankyness are listed. You can try easy the different setups.

So ive played both versions, HoP and HoAg and after testing and playing around I feel like HoP is way more tanky, has way better scaling potential with expensive items and its way less clunky while bossing because it has not such a high ramp up time. The biggest downside in fights like sirius with HoAg is that if you lose the minion it always takes a while before it jumps out of the ground which often results in doing almost no damage. Tankiness wise having fortify does so much more than any other extra defense that the HoAg version has. Fortify kinda double dips with armor because it reduces the incoming damage which also makes armor more effective. Yes you can have fortify in a HoAg setup too but it will result in it doing even less damage. You will also have more spider dps in a HoP setup because you dont have virulence cluster jewels that are not doing much for spiders. Clear is almost pure spiders anyway so HoP clears faster too.

"

Zerber wrote:

"

Chromino wrote:

hehe, both are a lot of fun.
In the spoiler "the dirty scorpion tail" you find a spoiler "herald of purity" where some differences in playstyle and tankyness are listed. You can try easy the different setups.

So ive played both versions, HoP and HoAg and after testing and playing around I feel like HoP is way more tanky, has way better scaling potential with expensive items and its way less clunky while bossing because it has not such a high ramp up time. The biggest downside in fights like sirius with HoAg is that if you lose the minion it always takes a while before it jumps out of the ground which often results in doing almost no damage. Tankiness wise having fortify does so much more than any other extra defense that the HoAg version has. Fortify kinda double dips with armor because it reduces the incoming damage which also makes armor more effective. Yes you can have fortify in a HoAg setup too but it will result in it doing even less damage. You will also have more spider dps in a HoP setup because you dont have virulence cluster jewels that are not doing much for spiders. Clear is almost pure spiders anyway so HoP clears faster too.

Hi Zerber,

I think you have missed a lot of gear and skills of this build and perhaps you have tried another and old HoA build and probably not this build...

Only some points I can agree, for most other points here are the correct datas of both builds:

1) fortify 20% dr against frost shield 20% dr, 60% dr against ranged (combined with bodyguards/ knockback op, much better than fortify), added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs. (Both are calculated after armour, not before armour, see poewiki). And also HoP has to attack and hit for fortify, frostshield is triggered and don't need to hit or attack.

2) 70000 armour of HoP against 120000 armour HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. Important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 120000 ar of HoA is fitting much better than only 70000).

3) 1400 against 2400 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better

4) pure agony and disciples have both 20% miniondamage: they are equal for spiders and HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony

5) HoP dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, much more area of damage also, but a bit less dps. You can scale 55-60 virulences easy against a bit quality of life on one medium cluster or double curses, then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars get much more damage as HoP. But with cyclone you can move, with spellecho of this build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.5 seconds to cast 2 of them. So yes, cyclone is a bit smoother in movement.

6) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more dps in mapping, HoP in single target a bit better, but slower: you have to reach melee the target. Here HoA can change pierce if it is wanted for singletarget, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for damage in this build.

7) HoP is missing vaal grace, phasing, elusive, ev, dodge, soul of solaris, double curses, overcapped resistances, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc. see the spoilers "pro's", the introduction and "index of defences".

I think these interesting stats of the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars you should not forget in your post when you try to compare the different numbers and different characteristics of the two builds.

"

1) fortify 25% dr against frost shield 20% dr, 60% dr against ranged (combined with bodyguards/ knockback op, much better than fortify), added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs

Frost shield is instantly gone when you do dangerous content, like standing inside a reinforced harbinger pack in a t16 or higher 100% delirium map. It takes literaly under a second to deplete. Its not a reliable source of damage reduction against real endgame threats.

"

2) 70000 armour of HoP against 120000 armour HoA (important for big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits.

Reducing incoming damage by 20% with fortify and than reducing it by armour is better than having more armour and like I said frost shield is instantly gone in content where you actually need such high defenses.

"

3) 1400 against 2400 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better

I experimented a lot with armour and roughly 40k armour is enough to get you through anything with ES on block, everything past that doesnt really make a difference you are at full HP from blocking anyway.

"

4) pure agony and disciples have both 20% miniondamage: they are equal for spiders and HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony

You can scale HoP way way way easier than herald of agony without sacrificing anything. The end game scaleability of HoP has way higher potential. Extra sentinel helmet, the fact that you can use a +2 duration and +1 gem skin of the loyal and that you can use awakened multistrike gives you way better high end scaleability. Im sitting at almost 12 million single target dps without needing to reduce any defense. Not possible with HoAg.

"

5) HoP dies often and must be raised again - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, much more area of damage also, but a bit less dps. you have to scale 55-60 virulences, then more damageas HoP.

Their are two boss fights where HoP often dies, purifier and minotaur because of the AoE spam in both fights but both bosses have such low HP anyway that you could easily just kill them with spiders.

"

6) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more dps in mapping, HoP in single target a bit better, but slower: you have to reach melee the target. Here HoA can to change pierce if it is wanted for singletarget, but scaling more virulences are recommended for damage in this build.

Im close to 70k spider dps with melee splash, I just run through maps without stoping once. You dont neeed to melee at all.

"

7) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, ev, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc. see the spoilers "pro's", the introduction and "index of defences".

You dont need all that because that all does not adress any weakness in the build. Their are more or less 3 things that can kill a mana guardian, super high degen, sirus meteor and super high unblockable damage like corpse exploding strongboxes. None of those extra defenses help against it.