Atlas Changes in 3.10.0

Temple map room and delve map rewards are not dropping ANNYTHING, that is why players are unsatisfied with them. The map equity system is not explisitly stated, so the only visible thing to a player is that they did it for nothing... this needs to be fixed in correlation to watchstones, since it is there the probblem lays. The temple roome and delve maps simply just dont interact propperly with the atlas...

"

jer1993 wrote:

So what I get from this, according to your very scientific research the vast majority of players wants to get maximum rewards for minimum investment. Everything should just be easy and free and achievable for the worst players within a week. You're talking bout diablo 3. Go play diablo 3 honestly.
"some players can't farm a few dozen exalts" like, that's the point, you gotta get good to be good. If you don't spend any time, thought or dedication to a game you SHOULD see no results. Don't even claim you even put thought into it too because if you really did you would notice map drops aren't necessarily nerfed but just shifted back into the side content a little so players that actually want to play the game have a reason to. Like around 5% ADDITIVE mapdrop bonus lost boohoo, run the side area. Given a map of 400 monsters and a tiny side area of just 50 monsters you just got a 12.5% MULTIPLICATIVE bonus back, just by killing more shit which you essentially should've done anyway but probably didn't given you can't farm a dozen exalts in a league apparently let alone a week or so. Then when time really is an issue and you can only play an couple hours every league, why the f are you playing league then, there's a standard mode that doesn't remove your progress every 3 months.

Let's address what you said one thing at a time then.

First thing you are stating is disagreeing with the fact that players should just be locked out of content because of artificial barriers that do not in any way shape or form enhance the game. I will remind you that tier 15 maps are as CORE gameplay as you can get. It's not doing anything special, it's merely doing core gameplay at a tier where you can hope (and I really do mean hope, not expect by any reasonable degree whatsoever) to actually make some currency so that you stand a chance in hell of maybe, just maybe after a month, complete a not very expensive build. Saying that a yellow tier 15 map is maximum reward is ignorant in the extreme. This is the bare minimum players should hope to be doing back to back without restrictions.

Don't throw the get good at me, that's not gonna glue. The problem of the game isn't getting good. There core issue is that if you don't pass the gear check, you don't progress. This is a fact and this fact has become more and more expensive with every single league but guess what, for the majority of the players who can't make that much currency, they've only been left further and further behind because they are still making the same profits but everything that was previously already impossible to get, now costs 3x as much as before. This is not good balance.

Maps drops being shifted somewhere else is not a solution. In fact they weren't. For starters, it's a fact you can't sustain high tier maps with just alching a map. It never was and it isn't now and this will make it much harder to do so. Nothing was added to these side areas (well, ok it was for the vaal areas I guess but small exception). But what you call side areas are things with their own speficic rewards and doing them should not be for maps but for those specific rewards. Uniques that drop, special modifiers, special currency and so on. Using side content which generally is harder than normal content as an escuse to say it's ok for map sustain to not exist is a ridiculous notion.

You realise that the VAST majority of players has a life right? They are either students or have a job and really, having a couple hours to play a day is quite nice because work doesn't ends when you leave work. You usually have stuff to do at home. What you are talking about stems from someone who has no responsabillities whatsoever and by luck can just spend the entire day playing games. However this is not the reality of the majority of the world nor the majority of the players in any given game. PoE is no exception to this of course. With that in mind, leagues are fun to play with the new mechanics. Not only that but standard still suffers from 2 problems. The first being that the economy is non existant. It's already bad in league, standard is amplified x10, if a normal player can't farm a full gear set to finish a build in 1 month in leagues. Then in standard he wouldn't be able to do so in a year just due to the prices. Secondly, the idea of permanence is an illusion (to borrow our "good" emepror's words). Your character may not be deleted, but it is a fact that nerfs and tree changes affect it just the same. So if I had a good ol' trapper build that before used to be able to do any map content without problems on budget gear. Now it wouldn't be able to do it because of the nerfs.

It is not me who hasn't put any thought into it. It is you who hasn't put any thought into it yourself. Consider a few things here. How would doing tier 15 maps easily for the majority of the player base affect the game?

Would it trivialise the game and make it easy? No, it would only allow more players to do the core game loop which is pretty fun. The hard things like awakener and elder and so on will still be just as hard and just as impossible to do unless they get gear. However doing high tier maps gives these player more of a chance to actually finish a build and be able to start doing harder content too.

Would this do anything to the economy of the game? Yes, but actually a positive impact. You see, there are 2 things that contribute to why gear has been becoming more expensive (aside from the flippers). The first is that for the people who pass the gear check they can make a lot more currency and thus prices rise due to a higher amount of currency in the market. Secondly a lot of players leaving the game anywhere between the 2 weeks mark and the 4 weeks mark (and it gets worse as more time passes). For the economy of the game to actually work well, you need a sizable playerbase, but the fact is, you are losing that playerbase very early in the league because players are being barred from even doing core content.

You are just afraid that the game will become less hardcore when you fail to realise even the most important factor. It's not that the game is hard. It's a gear check. Some people are ridiculously good that they can make due by skimping on defenses early on and that's how they gear. But it's also true that only people who play the game for hours and hours without end and do everything to optimise how fast they run the maps are able to do it. You forget that this is often not fun too.

Fact is, the game is not really hardcore, it's just made so that only a specific number of people pass the gear checks. This is what needs changing, at least where the core gameplay loop is concerned which is maps.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

ettanportion wrote:

I can't believe how entitled some people are. Seriously, some of you are like "oh no the game doesn't cater to all my personal needs so the game sucks and GGG sucks I'm not gonna play anymore buhuu".
Well you know what? Good riddance. There are thousands of players that like the game and will keep playing. You leaving won't make a dent. Actually, it will make the community better, because nobody likes toxic whiners anyway.
Good riddance, please don't come back! Cheers

I just wanted to point out that you said that without showing any sign of having supported the game in the slightest.


Just sayin ....

I've spent some money on stash tabs. Don't see how spending makes a difference though. Buying supporter packs is a choice, and it does not mean that your opinion is worth more than someone who didn't spend a dime.

"

Dreamounette wrote:

So much whine again, and again.
If you guys cant handle change, please stay on D3.

I want this, i want that.
Just play the game, if you guys dont have fun anymore.
Quit, and come next season.

I dont want to farm all t16 map, blablabla
I want to farm 1 map, blablablabla glacier farming so much fun blablabla...


So and if I WANT TO FARM all t16 ?
YOu can buy on bulk if you want to farm the same map over and over.
But remember you are not alone on the game.
Alot of people enjoy the new sistem
So please, stop whine.
Gaming comunity on 2020 is so kappa,kek,kthxbye...

The whole "If you don't like it leave" mentality is killing me. Please stay on D3? That game is nothing compared to this game. If you don't like something it's better to try improving it then just quitting and giving up right? The point is people like the game enough to care about it because we ALL just want to play it and have fun. So let's not be so rude to our fellow gamers shall we.

"

jer1993 wrote:

"

Elhazzared wrote:

To resume.

We don't want as many high tier maps dropping cause people are crying about other content feeling less rewarding.

We lowered higher tier map drop chances and we feel it's good now.

Let me tell you what you didn't test GGG. You didn't test if the majority of the players feel this is good. I for one was never happy with map sustain and many like me werent. Map sustain should be EASELY archievable by raring a map. That it! No sextants needed, no chisels needed, no other content like temple or delve needed. Doing maps and getting more maps that are of equal or higher tier should be the natural course.

Other type of content should have their own rewards and not be profitable through giving maps, if anything that should be a bonus at best. Similarly, sextants, chisels, awakening and so on should be BONUS. it shouldn't be the way to get the map sustain.

Similarly but on a different topic that is related to mapping. When are we gonna get the balance changes that PoE needs? In the last... i dunno, at least 2 years, the balance has been horrible. The game has been getting harder, being able top do nay kind of high level content requires more and more expensive gear which means less and less people can do it. This can't be a good balance when you put artificial barriers to prevent the vast majority of the player base from having access to high tier content.

I'm not even talking about Delve or Awakener. I'm talking the abillity to even do high tier maps.

Most people cannot farm a few douzen exalts to finish a build. Most just don't have the time to dedicate to PoE that it requires for ludicrous profits. Most don't even have a ghood knowledge of the market and frankly I think they shouldn't need to be able to enjoy the game. And then we add that the vast majority of player, while wanting fast clear speeds, they kinda still want to take it at their own pace. It's rare for a player to clear maps in less than 5 minutes. Most people, even if they have a build capable of doing it, probably will still take 10 to 20 minutes per map because they want to have fun.

However it's hard to have fun when even the most basic of high level content is barred. I mean, GGG already made it so that drops are not fun. Most people don't bother picking up rares or identifying them cause the likelyhood of them being good is abismal and it's more profitable to just pick up currency and meta uniques. So you know, maybe make the game fun again GGG? You know, remember when hiero got reworked and totems worked on a budget? Remember when traps worked on a budget? You may think, damn people were beating end game content with budget builds but you know what was far more important than silly notions like that? People were having fun!

I can't read, and I'm kind of a douche.

Translated your original response for the rest of the folks here.

I wish I had an offline version of PoE, with the old Atlas on.I would play the hell out of it.

"

Innomen wrote:

"

NotRegret wrote:

When the development manifesto is proud that they have made a part of the game easier you know the game is getting less hardcore and more casualized.

Resource management is the whole point of having an item (maps) be limited. Intentionally flooding the player with resources negates this. I feel like the game philosophy is to have something where players zone out and get a sense of progress.

Go get a second job if you wanna be tortured by a corporation for profit. Quit making the game *I* play less fun.

So tired of you tryhard masochists ruining it (or trying) for the rest of us.

+9001

"

Dreamounette wrote:

So much whine again, and again.
If you guys cant handle change, please stay on D3.

I want this, i want that.
Just play the game, if you guys dont have fun anymore.
Quit, and come next season.

I dont want to farm all t16 map, blablabla
I want to farm 1 map, blablablabla glacier farming so much fun blablabla...


So and if I WANT TO FARM all t16 ?
YOu can buy on bulk if you want to farm the same map over and over.
But remember you are not alone on the game.
Alot of people enjoy the new sistem
So please, stop whine.
Gaming comunity on 2020 is so kappa,kek,kthxbye...

Stop whining says the guy whining about whining.

And apparently it's not a personal attack to call people lazy every 15secs, but calling a jerk a jerk is.

If only GGG put as much time into listening to the community as they put into policing it...

Path of Ironies

Nobody was complaining that delve and atzoatl map chests were "not as exciting compared with the flash flood of red maps we get from mapping everyday"

They are, WE are, trying to tell you something is fundamentally not working-as-intended when these delve and atzoatl map chests are opening and there's NOTHING inside. Not just one chest. MANY. Okay, sometimes you get a sextant, or a dribble of chisels.

Maps? Nada. Zero.

Big Woof in Caer Blaidd is supposed to drop a handful of UNIQUE MAPS. Presumably, at the same tier as the Caer Blaidd instance itself. This has always been the case - when Caer Blaidd was tier 8, it dropped stuff around Tier 8: Mao Kun, Pillars of Arun, PJ's, another CB, etc. When it dropped to tier 5, you got a party platter of Maelstrom, Whaka, cowards, and so forth.

Now? I have Caers that are t13. Guess what they drop?



*crickets*

*a dog barks*

*tumbleweeds*

--Sextants. Let's talk about the one specifically granting you an extra map drop at tier from the boss. Have used this thinking it does what it says on the tin. Guess what?

If you guessed that instead we got a fart in a jar and a promise that eventually, we would earn a map at tier, you'd guess right.

Except you can't put a promise in your map device and run it.

Sure, there's a "rain cheque" system in place that if your atlas progression is not in line with your delve or temple ilvl, you get no map drops, but instead credit towards a map drop when you finally sync them up. This places the onus on the player to arbitrarily diddle his atlas so it matches, even if temporarily, the monster level of the delve city he's cleaning out.

Why be on record for disliking target farming and uncompleting maps, but then implement a system that compels players to dumb down their atlas or fill it with throwaway watchstones?

NO MORE PROMISES. Link UNIQUE map drops to the actual ilvl of the dude we're killing to get maps. Uncoupling atlas progression from non-atlas map sources will free devs, AND players, to explore other content in more depth (pardon the pun).

--If it's a temple, fill the box with maps UP TO the monster level of the temple and be done with it. You can get a lowriding temple by accidentally running into Alva while wrapping up a prophecy that takes you to say, the Foothills. But as a general rule, temple level = mapping level. If you're running an i83 temple, you should get plenty of juicy red apples.

--Delve boxes should contain maps of any tier up to the highest tier determined by the delve city monster level. Does that player digging at 300 really have all his watchstones? If he has enough sulphite to hit all the boxes in a Vaal outpost, it's more likely than you give credit for.

--And get rid of this awful "rain cheque" system so people can actually get t16 Doryani's and Perandus Manors by delving normally. So many feelbads from pushing delve to 4 digits and still getting farts in jars, or IOUs scrawled on the backs of scroll fragments!

Can anyone give me just 1 reason. 1 reason why removing map supply is good for the community or developers. Just 1 reason please anyone.