Paying for Inventory Stash = P2W

Yes I know, had to kinda hit the home-run right off the bat because it's not very important, but is very obvious to a few and needs to be known by more, and I'm in this beta to provide feedback.

Fist my opinions:

1. I don't care what GGG sells, I'll be supporting them cause the game is fun.
2. The only people who would care about any 'P2W' items are people who would pvp, and I don't care a lick for pvp in my arpg's.
3. I think GGG needs to sell items that are useful, but aren't over the top P2W. What those are, are to be decided by GGG.
Thus ends my opinions. Now lets get to the facts.

I suggested an orb looting pet for "single player play only" and there was a huge uproar saying it was P2W, yet those same people vehemently denied that extra stash is P2W.

There's a huge double standard going on here, and the whole P2W argument is a bit silly really, just something for people to complain about when there's really no harm done.

However if we wanna look deeply, I have a crystal ball on the very simple stash P2W problem.

Simply put, extra stash allows you to hoard items to turn in for recipes that give you GOOD orbs. Here's the list of recipes:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/15223

Now the only argument that people could some up with is...
"But you can make a new account!"

So lets destroy that silly idea first. How many f2p players are going to make two accounts, set them up on two computers, and go through both accounts to sort recipes on their 4 tabs each? And do this every time they get more items and need more accounts? This is incredibly unrealistic and won't happen for many reasons by a majority.

BUT if they do... they do it because having recipes is a huge ADVANTAGE. Right? I mean it would take some SERIOUS time and effort to do this regularly, but it does offer a huge enticing advantage...

Oh about that advantage...

How many paying players can effortlessly have this HUGE advantage all the time quite easily? These players can hoard their rares in their own account with GIANT stash sizes, sorting their orb generating recipes easily and efficiently while getting crazy benefits from selling those recipes? Ahh thank goodness for P2W, cause this is winning!

So how many players was the question I asked...
The answer is everyone who spends money on points. Everyone. And it absolutely is, I repeat, ABSOLUTELY IS an immense advantage. The only problem is most players don't REALIZE they can get orbs for having different rares combined to give to the merchants, now hopefully they do.

Now that we've got that out of the way, I post this because it WILL come up eventually, and I wanted to offer my invaluable feedback before it gets blown out of proportion.

I also don't care at all if buying stuff gives people an advantage, any advantage. I just want my money that I spend to be spent on stuff I find worthy, just like anyone else. I also want an orb looting monkey with his own upgradable stash, but I'll settle for just supporting the good folks at GGG.

The game is free, you can create as many accounts as you like, with a ton of different character tabs that you can use as mules... or, you can buy extra stash tabs.

It isn't p2w, it's pay to save time.

Ahh so you agree that P2Save Time is worth it? See I do too, which is why I want a pet monkey picking up my orbs cause Im terribly lazy. It does come close to offering the same advantage as stash, but not quite.

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

The game is free, you can create as many accounts as you like, with a ton of different character tabs that you can use as mules... or, you can buy extra stash tabs.

It isn't p2w, it's pay to save time.

Using that logic, magic find potions of experience potions would also be paying to save time rather than paying to win.

The devs seem to acknowledge that this is a borderline case, so I doubt they'll traverse deeper down the slippery slope. The time savings are also very minimal, so I guess I don't have much of a problem with it.

There are good points on both sides of this argument, but it's ultimately up to GGG's discretion. They have already said that there will be no cut-and-dry advantages, such as xp or loot buffs. Stash tabs are probably the only thing of this sort that we'll see in the cash shop. The advantage it gives is nearly negligible.

The advantage it gives is quite measurable and immense.

Again make sure you understand I personally don't mind what advantage anyone has paid or not. But it's quite a huge advantage, no doubt.

"

Psomm wrote:

The advantage it gives is quite measurable and immense.

Again make sure you understand I personally don't mind what advantage anyone has paid or not. But it's quite a huge advantage, no doubt.

If it increased your inventory, I might agree with you as it would reduce portal consumption and the number of trips to the vendors. Instead, it's just stash size. The advantage is minimal, or at least it will be once open beta starts and you can easily make another account.

"

Wisdom wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

The game is free, you can create as many accounts as you like, with a ton of different character tabs that you can use as mules... or, you can buy extra stash tabs.

It isn't p2w, it's pay to save time.

Using that logic, magic find potions of experience potions would also be paying to save time rather than paying to win.

The devs seem to acknowledge that this is a borderline case, so I doubt they'll traverse deeper down the slippery slope. The time savings are also very minimal, so I guess I don't have much of a problem with it.

My logic had nothing to do with saving time, shouldn't have said that at the end. But, as you said the time saving is minimal (a few seconds? depending on how fast you can type...) So lets just forget I did. :)

In the game, right now, you can just create another account and receive extra stash tabs. You cannot, in any way, find magic potions that increase your XP or drop rates or anything else.

Your counter example isn't valid for that reason.

Buying extra stash tabs is an advantage, but one that anyone can take advantage of without having to spend any money, so I do not see how it violates any of GGG's EMT system.

It's completely unrealistic to assume multiple free accounts could achieve this.

Would you do what I already addressed? let me repeat:

How many f2p players are going to make two accounts, set them up on two computers, and go through both accounts to sort recipes on their 4 tabs each? And do this every time they get more items and need more accounts? This is incredibly unrealistic and won't happen for many reasons by a majority.

1. you assume everyone has 2 computers they can run simultaneously. that already cuts out a majority.
2. you assume they have them side by side. more cuts.
3. Everytime one account is full, which would be often unless they dump everything to a mule often, they'd have to load up another account and transfer.
4. Do you have any idea how long it takes to try to sort with multiple accounts? I suggest you try it. In fact I INSIST you try it before you say having multiple stash on one account is a negligible advantage getting rares for orbs. I did, and it's the reason I'm right.

It's a huge advantage, there's no way anyone can deny that.