respecing.
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Another suggestion. Since there is no death penalty in default difficulty, why not allow more respec options in the standard difficulty as well? This would allow for learning and experimentation, while retaining the "this is my character" investment.
Thoughts? ---------------
For Great Cheeses! | |
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Players should be able to fully respec whenever they want, via some item to be defined, but i wouldn't make it too rare.
It's a quality of life matter. Some people simply don't enjoy leveling 100 characters, while those who do, aren't hurt by the ability of others to respec. | |
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As someone mentioned about an very rare "Orb of Respec" is a nice idea but I think that having full respec is taking away some of the fun factor in creating a new character but let us have a rare orb that let you refund 1 skill point.
Here is some thoughts. "Fragment of Regret/Repent" --> very rare drop that when combined (ex. 3-10 pieces) becomes "Orb of Regret/Repent" --> This orb refunds a placed passive skill. Can also be used as an high value currency. Can't be found. I dont think this would ruin anything as long as Fragment of Regret is very rare. |
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Having no full respecs is one thing, having a very complicated skill tree is another. Putting them together is a mistake, IMO. I'm having flashbacks of consoling friends that made stupid characters in Champions at release. You want people to reroll because it's fun, not because they felt like they made a mistake.
I like everything else about this game so I am really trying to look past this design decision, but it is difficult. You can predict that around the corner is some key change to a deep passive and the endless debates about how it is not fair without a free respec for those people, and then just what sort of future changes justify one, etc etc... can of worms. Sticking to this premise is going to come with a hefty price, so I hope it is worth it. Having a list of characters with 01 02 and 03 after their names doesn't seem like it would appeal to the general audience, but if this is supposed to be more of a niche game then I respect that. I don't think the popular vote should always win because I don't want to play the exact same MMO over and over. So, this is just my $.02 and not an attempt to derail your crazy train if that's what you want :) | |
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inc wall of text.
Adding to the discussion that looks like it has been going on for a year and a half. And I'd like to address some of the points that people have made: 1) Drastic Changes through Respecing " Why is it wrong that I want to change how I play my character? Maybe the old play style is stagnant. Maybe I leveled to 40 and found that the build I chose is simply not as enjoyable as I want it to be. I see it as a punishment to have to start from scratch, just because I would like to try a more fun play style. 2) Name calling " This doesn't offer anything to the discussion. Why am I a noob for wanting to try something new? To venture away from a guide set up by someone else? I want to find the set of skills that work best for me, and to do so is going to take trial and error. 3) Rerolling " There is absolutely nothing to stop someone from rerolling a character. Being able to respec does not stop any player from making new characters. What it does, however, is it doesn't force a place to reroll if they would like to play an existing character. For me, character names are huge. I have spent a day trying to come up with a name I like for my characters. So to reroll a new character (in most games) usually means that I cannot use the character name I want. Some people may see it as a trivial thing. But I see it as no more trivial than optionally rerolling a character because that is what you want to do. I do not usually reroll the same class 14 times when I play any game. It isn't my play style. 4) Experimenting and Optimizing " The limited respec capabilities as they have it now completely destroy the ability to experiment. They do not allow you to try a build and see how it works for you. They do not allow you to try a way out of the box build/play style because if it doesn't work, there's no option to go back. Optimizing will always be a thing. Limiting respecing will not prevent this. It will simply mean that a player will look up the optimal build for XYZ character type and follow that from the start. 5) Situational Respecing " Let me preface this by saying I love online communities for the chance to meet and play with new people. Now, I play several online games to allow myself to interact with people I can no longer see on a day-to-day basis (such as friends from other places I have lived). It is not a massive group of people. Respeccing for content would allow all of us in our small group to stay relevant for every encounter. And I ask this as well: why is it that people should suffer through a single piece of content because of the build they chose on day 1? Shouldn't a player be congratulated for being adaptable? |
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" I've heard a lot of people make these kinds of statements without any reasoning. Why do you feel that respeccing should be limited? What do you think it takes away from the game play experience? |
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" I believe they want respec to be limited so that you are still forced to think a lot about your next choices, and are rewarded for doing some good thinking. Besides that way you can't make a build specifically for a boss/situation. And I agree with that, not just because of what I just said but because this game wasn't made specifically for me, there has to be some compromise so that everyone can be happy playing the game. There are a lot of people who want full respecs and there are a lot of people who talk against it too. The people who come out and just say "NO RESPECS! It's my way!" are just childish... And I totally agree that as it stands we don't have the ability to adapt while playing the game, which takes a lot of the fun AND thinking out of the game. Right now only no-lifers can truly experiment with the game, rerolling just to try a new build is way too harsh for a game with such a big passive tree. In my opinion full respecs should be allowed once a week, so that you don't lose all the work you've done on a char. Last edited by EternalEntity on Jan 23, 2013, 5:06:46 PM
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" While I agree with you, I think that once a week might be pushing it, as a lot of people are very much against respecing. I guess I'll break down my thoughts on the matter. People (and the devs, I suppose) are against respecing because they want your decisions to have weight. They want to promote diversity amongst characters through a rigid character development system. This makes since and I totally understand it. What doesn't make sense is punishing new players for early mistakes. I think that if we all look at this rationally, it is pretty obvious that you're going to make some drastic mistakes on your first allocation of skill points, and it really isn't fair to ask a new player to reroll because of these early decisions. All of this is especially concerning when you think about it from a casual player's perspective. I would imagine that a casual player is more likely to quit the game and play something else, rather than reroll the same class due to feelings of inadequacy. We're no longer living in 2001. People have way more choices when it comes to what game they want to play at any given time, and will gladly move on if faced with a dilemma such as a road block in character development. Do you really want to alienate your casual audience like that? There's a fine like that needs to be walked between casual and hardcore audiences, and I feel like the current design is way too deep into hardcore territory. To respond to those of you thinking, "Screw those casuals. They can just leave then, we don't want them here.", keep in mind that those casual players outnumber you by a large margin. You might not think this is the case because your vocal minority has a large presence on the forums, but that's because they have other things to do and just aren't interested in debating on this forum. However, casual player's support of the game can go a long way towards profits via microtransactions, which your developer needs in order to continue to improve upon the game. You need those casuals to be at least moderately happy with their experience, and not feel like they're being left in the dust just because they don't have the time to level the same class 2-3 times. You need them to be happy and get their way sometimes in order to give your game sales, just like they need you to get your way sometimes so that the game has substance. Again, it's a fine line. I'll stop ranting and get to my main point and solution: I believe that the easiest fix would be to increase the amount of respec points you get from quests. Currently I believe you get 2 respec points per act per difficulty. If this were changed to 7 respec points per act per difficulty, you would end up with 84 points. I think this is a fair number of points that would go a long way in helping new players to not beat themselves up over their early mistakes, but not too far as to give an absurd and unnecessary amount of flexibility. |
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84 passive respec points is enough for a full respec, so that's way too much.
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(First post so big congratulations to GGG for an awesome arpg.)
There are so many options for builds that I feel respecs should be allowed in a more accessible form than Orbs of Regret. I don't feel it is reasonable to expect players to reroll just to try out another of the myriad possible builds of their class. Sure, to modify the main theme of the build Orbs are fine, but there are just so many diverse flavours of each class. Unfortunately many of us do feel (unnecessary) regret at earlier spec choices. Is this in the best interest of the game? Last edited by Rediron on Jan 24, 2013, 3:57:38 AM
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