Pros and Cons - Death Penalty

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grogzor wrote:

I think there is no point in discussing this again and again.

on the one hand we have uber nerds who play like 10 hours a day and have a lot of knowledge about builds, setups, items and so on.

on the other hand we have casuals who play like max 1 or 2 hours a day or like 5 hours a week and dont know all the details or are just following some random build from several patches ago.

the uber nerds will never understand that casuals are not gonna invest 10 hours daily into this game, just to roflstomp delve depth 400 and grind lvl 100. and the casuals will never understand why the nerds are so hellbent on keeping everything just the way it is.

this game teaches you nothing. you have to go look for the answers yourself, which requires even more work. I am somewhere in between all of this. I am definitely an uber casual in this game, but I still like the idea of a death penalty, though I am pretty sure 5% loss would easily be enough. I would even go as low as 2% to stop people from zerging their way through hard content.

or maybe it could scale somehow. from lvl 90 onwards 5%, from 95 onwards 3% or whatever.

I was going to comment on something else in this thread, but conveniently, my points have been made for me, which leaves me free to concern myself with this.

I'm fairly certain that true casuals are barely affected by death penalty because they barely earn any exp they could lose.

In any case, what is wrong with having casuals not reach max level? Isn't it adequate to have some form of separation, some form of reward for people who actually do invest time and effort?

I don't mind the game being more friendly to casuals, especially in the beginning stages, but there are limits to everything, also what casuals can achieve. It's already possible to farm red maps with just about any build. People are thankful for the challenge provided by Delve because the previous endgame had already gotten too easy.

To put it in other words, if making the game more enjoyable to casuals means necessarily making it easier, removing obstacles, non-casuals will as a consequence enjoy it less. This is often not a good trend in general and it's a particularly bad fit for this game.

I might have stated this before in this thread, but so far, I have zero characters at level 90 and above and that is a good thing. I do have two characters that have / had the potential to go further, but all of my other characters deserved to be stuck.

No, the game doesn't open a tutorial every time you die with step by step instructions on how to avoid this particular reason for dying. But maybe you can be expected to read a tiny bit between the lines, if it happens repeatedly? The things that kill you aren't infinite. It's not an endless stream of information you have to learn by heart.

Death penalty doesn't teach you what you need to improve, just that you need to in general. Making the players think is one of the strong points of the game. I'd hate to see it removed. This doesn't mean I'm opposed to basic death recaps showing the magnitude of the damage you took before dying. But figuring out how to survive it and that it's necessary to reach maximum level is the responsibility of the player.

Death recaps are absolutely fine. Love them in dota 2.

Death recap is useless unless we get textual info about what exactly killed you (type dmg, hit size). If Death should be mechanics to get to know limits of my char .... it can either be my hands are not doing stuff properly or my gear is insufficient, and some hits from mobs are not supposed to be something player should survive.

Since we don't have combat log, we know nothing! People with deep ingame knowledge can estimate or predict what got them. Not that easy for me.

I got instagibbed 3 times in Uber Elder fight in phase 3 the second i moved out of the zone in immortality. Did it teach me anything? no, not really.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

If you try to spew out that something is a "fact" don't throw hissy fit when its been proven that its not.

I doubt, I have nothing to hide :P

Fully agree that some info on what killed us would be awesome.
I've often wondered "what happened?" and there are quite a few videos posted on reddit where people had to analyse the video repeatedly to try and find out and still could not agree. That really sucks, because then it feels like a random kill timer.

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SisterBlister wrote:

Fully agree that some info on what killed us would be awesome.
I've often wondered "what happened?" and there are quite a few videos posted on reddit where people had to analyse the video repeatedly to try and find out and still could not agree. That really sucks, because then it feels like a random kill timer.

Sounds bullshit, tbh. If you have video evidence and enough game knowledge, you can figure out any death that happens to you. Feel free to link some of these "recorded unknown deaths" though.

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Anonymous1749704 wrote:

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SisterBlister wrote:

Fully agree that some info on what killed us would be awesome.
I've often wondered "what happened?" and there are quite a few videos posted on reddit where people had to analyse the video repeatedly to try and find out and still could not agree. That really sucks, because then it feels like a random kill timer.

Sounds bullshit, tbh. If you have video evidence and enough game knowledge, you can figure out any death that happens to you. Feel free to link some of these "recorded unknown deaths" though.

BS or not I think having a detah combat log would help.

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ffogell wrote:

BS or not I think having a detah combat log would help.

I'm not against a combat log. I'm just saying that anyone who streams/records their game play can play it back and already have a combat log.

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robmafia wrote:

...then you backpedaled right back to:

- refuses to use defenses
- complains about dying

lolz @ defenses being exclusive to... not rangers.

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i doubleposted it by mistake

...25 minutes apart?

yeah 25 minutes apart sherlok
cus i thought the first one didnt post ...
do you even think logically ??

also your offtopic BS shows us how painful your life must be ...

[/quote]

It was your decision to play a glass cannon, so stop bitching. [Removed by Support][/quote]

im not playing a glass cannon
you can stop your insults here :)

if i have to play my dead eye with 99999 hp
then the game has of course a balancing problem ... [/quote]

174% inc life, yet only 5k max hp.

Nice armour mod on your life flask, that'll really help you since you have 89 armour!

Resis are barely capped, yet you have no flask for curse immunity??? wat

No Enfeeble/TC, no Vaal Grace, no armour flasks... And you DARE say you're not playing a glass cannon? On top of all that, your damage doesn't look like it qualifies as a 'cannon', so you're more likely to be playing a glass pistol.

In short, your build sucks. Time to look in the mirror instead of blaming the game.[/quote]

at least i can look in the mirror unlike you ;)

did you really complained about the armour mod on my life flask and then said i have no armour flask? ok so what if i change my flasks to what you said ? ill be tanky as hell or what??
yeah resis are barely capped cus my shoes belt and gloves are bad obviously mr profile spy
its not "my build" its a build from a guide you obvious offensive troll

so if its a "glass pistol" i wouldnt beat the shaper guards in like 10 seconds ... i call your talking "BS" ...

trolls like you only look on others profile to judge their characters and how bad they are but forget about the fact that it has nothing to do with "death penalty" is damn annoying and has "NOTHING" to do with fun

like i said to robmafia
i dont need any assistance on how to equip and skill properly
because even my juggernaut tank builds die from time to time
and its annoying because a juggernaut isnt that fast in grinding ...

edit: before you put salt on my bad "Quote"
im not very familiar with forums
i dont know how it works here