Blizzard is working on a 'new, unannounced Diablo project'

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鬼殺し wrote:

But that's what roleplay in a computer game context has always been. Making the game a stage. Yeah, VTM definitely made the game a stage, no bones about it. Exceedingly.

We used to RP on Diablo 1 though. In-game and all. As long as there's a chance to type in words, you can RP through it. Did it on D2 as well. You decided your character's personality through their actions, or you played the character based on a design. And we did this in various MMORPGs as well, where the devs would take the roles of npcs and run roleplay events. It doesn't always make sense -- most times, online RP makes very little sense at all -- but it's something people do. It's a challenge to turn something that isn't overtly a stage into a stage. To try to wring more out of a setting than is at first apparent.

Back when PoE was still in beta, Chris and co talked about custom leagues a lot. A LOT. And I had plans to run a roleplay league. Quite a few people were interested, which sort of surprised me. But obviously that never eventuated. The point is the potential was and is there.

Even without textual communication, you can roleplay things out as long as there is choice. Technically every single one of my PoE character has done that because they all have restrictions and guidelines that have nothing to do with playing the game efficiently or 'properly'. That's just how I kept it interesting for myself.

That is almost impossible now, with where the PoE metagame stands and how early in the game it dominates a player's 'choices'. To play against meta is to not just do things differently or inefficiently -- it's to outright cripple yourself. To me it is no more free or ripe for 'breaking character' as set by the game as in D3.

From my point of view its like adding something that is not there to a game that was not designed to support such addings. Yes You could do that and i guess many ppl do that but its like... racing with familly cars. You can do it but why if there are cars designed to race? Why waste all that potentiall that is available IF only we switch cars? Because cRPGs with mentioned Witcher or Fallout (1 and 2) provide better settings for such things? Why build a stage in place where designer didnt even thought about it? Again You could do that but why?

Also whe we chosse character in PoE we choose very little. If i want play a spell caster marauder i can do this despite the fact that Witch is much more efficient in such role. And i tried it actually took some effort to crawl from marauder tree to a scion part and then further but at one point i realised that is just "too much effort for too little final experience". In vid game narrative part of the game is locked mainly by design. Im really waiting for a vid game that will at least in some part introduce actuall role playing to the virtual world and from what i heard from my brother that was playing Warhammer Online there was this thing present - he played dwarf and guild he was in was made by guy who act on based on character and like he said "it was fun and awesome, but only few followed that idea". The main part was running locations and killing each other avatars.

It might be fun but if he had opportunity to play actual Warhammer he said he would much more preffer that. Vid was just "some kind of experience".

Just sharing a perspective.

Also im afarid such league - with added this kind of layer - would be comared to Bestiary and probably would be the very worst. Despite the technical difficulties needed to run such things.

So... Let fork be fork and not try to turn it into spoon and if You want spoon - use spoon.

Also about choice - PoE has only ONE choice and currently it doesnt really matter. Bandits. Thats all.

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Namcap wrote:

Diablo Battle Royale.

Sign me up.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

OK lets give it a last chance.

In VTM fun part is in interacting with other players acting based on charatecrs not fixing game mechanics. Game mechanics are there only to clear out non role play elements. Like actors in "write on while live at stage" story.

In PoE or any different vid game fun is with tweaking mechanics and using it interacting with created virtual reality - ther is no "actual role playing". Like i cannot choose dialogue options stated by my character, i cannot react differently, etc. All is already in game. There is no stage to act on.

But that's what roleplay in a computer game context has always been. Making the game a stage. Yeah, VTM definitely made the game a stage, no bones about it. Exceedingly.

We used to RP on Diablo 1 though. In-game and all. As long as there's a chance to type in words, you can RP through it. Did it on D2 as well. You decided your character's personality through their actions, or you played the character based on a design. And we did this in various MMORPGs as well, where the devs would take the roles of npcs and run roleplay events. It doesn't always make sense -- most times, online RP makes very little sense at all -- but it's something people do. It's a challenge to turn something that isn't overtly a stage into a stage. To try to wring more out of a setting than is at first apparent.

Back when PoE was still in beta, Chris and co talked about custom leagues a lot. A LOT. And I had plans to run a roleplay league. Quite a few people were interested, which sort of surprised me. But obviously that never eventuated. The point is the potential was and is there.

Even without textual communication, you can roleplay things out as long as there is choice. Technically every single one of my PoE character has done that because they all have restrictions and guidelines that have nothing to do with playing the game efficiently or 'properly'. That's just how I kept it interesting for myself.

That is almost impossible now, with where the PoE metagame stands and how early in the game it dominates a player's 'choices'. To play against meta is to not just do things differently or inefficiently -- it's to outright cripple yourself. To me it is no more free or ripe for 'breaking character' as set by the game as in D3.

I think what d99ial was talking about was choice, within which POE has none really (its just kill stuff) as opposed to something like Baldurs Gate. And yeah Charan is absolutely correct, we turn the game into the stage that defines our characters. Its propably the one thing that i prefer tabletop rp'ing over computer based. That slow decline to chaotic evil from good, or the reversed climb out of the pit. It was something that my friends knew id do almost every character. Id love to be able to do that in POE but that would be an entirely different game with far better multiplayer modes.

Cheers,
Matt.

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essemoni wrote:

I think what d99ial was talking about was choice, within which POE has none really (its just kill stuff) as opposed to something like Baldurs Gate. And yeah Charan is absolutely correct, we turn the game into the stage that defines our characters. Its propably the one thing that i prefer tabletop rp'ing over computer based. That slow decline to chaotic evil from good, or the reversed climb out of the pit. It was something that my friends knew id do almost every character. Id love to be able to do that in POE but that would be an entirely different game with far better multiplayer modes.

Cheers,
Matt.

Yeah. In PoE the choice that matters is in the mechanics (and D3 doesnt even have that). Same as in every hack and slash. Some has more build up narrative like Van Hellsing some has less but overall its like reading book - no choice there (in story).

Regards!

PS. Battle royale? Its like Quake 3 area but renamed.

I think D3 is already just a superior GAME to PoE, and has been for a long time. Killing monsters is more fun in D3, there is more end-game progression, there is even more character progression. Hell, its sad when I gear FASTER in PoE than I do in D3 and they literally throw gear at you.

If I was gonna pick either game to just sit down and play for a little while, it would be D3. The only thing I feel PoE beats it at is (Illusion of)Choice, (Illusion of)depth,and economy. You basically play PoE to trade and amass wealth. The act of killing monsters just isnt there. You play mostly characters who use 1-2 skills or buttons to kill the screen. There is nothing to ever dodge in the game. What rare pack do you come across that you do anything besides blow up? No arcane beams, no mortars, nothing. Just roll over them holding down cyclone, or RF, where you don't even use a skill.

PoE, to me, is more a shell of its former glory when it comes to the things people praise it for. The skill-tree is touted as some monster force when in reality everyone builds damn near the same. You get X amount of life nodes, you get the same damage nodes, you take the same optimized paths. The only people punished by the skill tree are new players who pick nodes that are honestly only there to screw them over. The game, IMO, never really fully realized the potential of the giant tree. You are always forced into a specific way of building it, hampered by life nodes and weak clusters. In all these years, they still havent even tried to break the monotony of the tree up. Tried to throw a monkey wrench in there. Its still path of life nodes with a few damage clusters everyone picks up.

People constantly knock D3 for giving gear, when I can hit map level, say 68-75, and be fully map ready and geared in about 30 minutes. Most of the gear is dirt-cheap. I bought a 6l armor, not tal rasha, day 3 for 20c. Something that would have been 6-7ex years ago. Its harder to get a set of ancient gear in D3 than it is to get near BiS on PoE. Week 1 not even over and I got a full build. The most I get to change is 10-15 hp here and there.

I like PoE. I do. Otherwise I wouldnt be here. But I also like D3. A D4 would put a serious hurt on PoE, because current D3 is merely a scrapped together fix for a failing vanilla D3. A full-fledged restart using their current ideas and lessons learned would be a great game. Honestly, I dont even think the RMT was a terrible idea. It was just terribly timed. I think nowadays, and into the future, it would be a more accepted thing. Mobile games are helping that front. And, I hate to tell people, but PoE is as heavily dominated by RMT as D2 and D3 was, and if you dont think so, then you are living in serious denial. This game's economy is HEAVILY dictated by the RMT powers that be. Gamers in this genre prefer an out of sight, out of mind approach to RMT. When my buddy is selling people 2k worth of duped runes at a time in D2, exactly what kind of money do you think people are throwing around for non-duped exalts nowadays? You think spending curbed? Just look at whales in Mobile games if you dont think people whale in something like PoE. And that heavily dictates the entire economy, and the amount of bots it has.

Anyways, I look forward to D4. I'm fairly burnt out of both D3 and PoE at this point. I'm playing this till D3 season starts, I'll play it, pick something I've never played, enjoy that for like 2-3 weeks, and quit it. I'm ready for something fresh. But, I do think D3 passed PoE as the superior overall game years ago. PoE, for me, is back to offering what it offered at the very start; niche enjoyment. Trading, amassing wealth. If I want to enjoy playing something, I'd rather kill stuff in D3.

If Diablo gets a battle royal I'm becoming a COMMUNIST...!

HYPE !!!

Whatever it will be I will get it.

Diablo is Diablo, any real fan of the most epic ARPG game series ever will get it for sure.

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鬼殺し wrote:

I'd consider myself a fan of the Diablo series, but certainly not of Diablo 3. Diablo 4 has a lot of legwork to do before it regains the goodwill of real Diablo series fans, I think.

Agree.

I heard a youtube expert compare diablo 2 to D&D 3rd, and compare diablo 3 to D&D 4th. Then he said Pathfinder is like PoE, and he said blizzard needs to do with Diablo 4, then same thing D&D did with 5th edition: They trashed most of 4th edition, kept a few good things, and made D&D 5th much more like D&D 3rd.

Bottom line is they better deliver something different with GOOD gameplay or fuggedabout it. The market has changed, people's tastes have changed, there is much more competition. The Diablo franchise has lost a lot of its glow. If not all.