End game is only sustaining red maps. Fun?

Endgame is grinding the highest maps possible for loot and XP. In my extensive SSF experience over the years and almost exclusive temp league play, sustaining T11 is doable just by Alc&go, in the last two years at least.

With some investment into: map completion / reroling / chisel / Zana mods / sextants / vaaling / frags... T13+ are sustainable in SSF. It's worth killing map bosses just for the +2 potential and 1/5 chance of dropping a map.

You can fall down from T11 to T7 only if you just had a handful of each and you've hit a negative streak. As long as your pool is "big enough", its impossible to run out of T11 maps no matter how badly you roll them, as long as you Alc them.

"

Bone2flesh wrote:

I disagree with you when it comes to the trading bit and RNG. The game would be boring without either for most people.

Yes there are a select few who prefer solitude and play SSF. that is fantastic. GGG made a game mode for you.

We have however also these kind of players:

1. People who enjoy getting their build running trough any means and if the mean trading so be it.

2. A lot of people enjoy playing the economy and amassing wealth: so be it.

3. Some simply like to share challenges and help others.

4. Some like to give away items and feel good about themselves.

5. I like having a shared Gbank with my friend and support his crafting addiction.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that emphasis on trading is a bad design in itself. I'm well aware that it main purpose is to ensure more lifespan to the game for most of players. I'm just saying that I don't personaly like it. This feels kinda obnoxious sometimes and I can understand that some people quit the game.

But at the end with some grind I'm still dealing with it and don't much complain about it in forum. I still like the game and I'm trying to get 36 challenges in SSF right now so yeah... this game is still ok for me :p

"

Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

Hey, I just wanted to let you a note thanking you for:

- not using elder influence

- not finishing atlas and zana quest

- not using elder orb

- not using prophecies

- not using atziri frags

- not using sextants

- still thinking we're in 3.0

Without you guys I wouldn't have been able to sell 2000 chaos of maps over the week.


Oh and given I've been chaining eldered T16 non-stop (can't sustain had to buy like 3 T16 maps over the week, cause i've been lazy with frags!) there are 2 solutions:

- you're doing it wrong

- Rasputin and Jesus are back from the dead and in an attempt to take over the world they have joined forces and the first step of their plan is to attack the map pools of the best poe players.

You're right, must be option 2!

Cheers

PS: doesn't apply to SSF players, well you wanted the hard option, you got it...

I've fought elder twice, the problem I ran into was not having the maps needed and having to buy off people that would actually respond - I'd have maps in that tier, just not the ones I needed. The more you invest into something the more you need to get back....

Can't finish zana quest - maps needed to progress aren't dropping frequently enough in general. Early on even sustain on alchs was rough, but atm I'm having to spend currency to replenish chisels. Once again, the more you spend on your investment the bigger your return needs to be to make it worthwhile. Throughout the entire league, the only time I'm netting positive chisels is by repeating lower tier maps unchiseled. If I can't get a steady surplus, having to spend currency continuously digs into any potential profit.

I've used more prophecies this league than I did in abyss, and yet even in abyss I got far more junk maps that could at least go into making chisels.

I'm not burning atziri frags on maps because I don't have a constant flow of them. Any time I get a set of four I tend to just do atziri because at least it feels like I'm being rewarded, even when she doesn't really drop anything of value.

I've seen 2 red sextants in all the mapping I've done. My yellows are barely in double digits. Given the benefit vs cost, selling them is far more reliable as far as profit goes.


Basically, as it stands I would have to spend a ton to build up my red tiers. The biggest problem is that even if I did dump several hundred chaos, there's still quite a high chance that I'd be spending more than the return. I may not have copious amounts, but I'm not broke. As someone who's spent too much time in a casino as is, it doesn't seem wise to invest heavily into high risk when the "long term" returns have been so sparse as is.

I'm far away from being a pro-player, but just one question. Would be a problem for the end game to increase the yellow and red maps drop? I think more then 50% of the players cant do end game content anyway (higher maps, shaper, etc), even if they have the maps (unless they get help from other players). Soo, whats the problem here? Why must be a battle to get higher maps. Ofc u wanted to chiser, sextants, and other things to get better loot, more currency, etc... but not need it to just get maps to play the game... I think the map system if fun because u can modify the area, increase the dificulty to get better drops.... Would it be bad for the game to increase those drops??

Or at least the bosses could have like 50% to drop same tier map, 35% to drop +1 level map and 15% to drop +2 level tier map, this way you were always wanted to kill the bosses to maintain ur map poll..

"

trixxar wrote:

"

Peterlerock wrote:

You are done with progression. Every game ends at some point. For some, the end comes sooner than later, and some just keep on grinding.

Btw...
Maps = endgame
Red maps = end-endgame ;)

Thats fair, and I can accept it, but then Id have to not recommend this game and leave negative reviews on it, which is a shame.

To end with such a whimper, instead of a bang. Its like if the end boss in Grim Dawn, Diablo, etc. was to sort of fight a boss from 10 levels ago who is ridiculously easy.

This is simply the worst endgame for a game Ive ever encountered, and Ive played all manner of MMOs.

Sad, it has such potential.

My take on this is that the game is never ending.
Its kind of a "sandbox" approach to the aRPG genre. You are free to do whatever you like, which also means you are the one setting the goals. There wont be a big final fight and a "You win!" or highscore screen - if thats what you were expecting ;)

The game wont tell you "Its over, move on and make a new build".
Its up to you to make that decision and due to PoEs "sandbox" nature, you´ll also have to decide which features you (dis)like and you want to interact with.

I like that a lot, but I get thats not for everyone.


Cheers

I'm agree with op. As end game you can play another builds, grind for eternal currency and as a resalt - trade, and craft, but mostly game offer you only 1 thing - rng over rng over rng. In terms of challenge and actuall reward there are whole 3 encounters - shaper and two poor design uber atziri (that there is the same thing as atziri) and uber elder (that there is the same thing as elder + shaper)

And yes all your progression as a character as gear are build around trade mostly (i don't mean ssf - play it and make 6l to lvl 99 like Rize) couse realistic you will never get items you really want as pure drops, only as trade or craft (second desing around rng)

But one thing i don't understand - this bullshit rng thing exist from the start of the game, and people start complain about it only now. Yes in this league they raised the bar of rng on another level with there spirit beast rng spawn (and it is an end game for league, that average player wouldn't see) but still ... oh i forget - you can grind currency with clear speed meta and buy it from poe.trade my bad

Interesting thing company named ggg where is grinding gear, but most of gring are about currency.

And to be fair - you can sustain t11+ maps even now, but whatever, it offer you same things as t1 maps with the difference of xp rate and some bases (second again desing around rng) but thats it no reall challenge and reward

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

Basically, as it stands I would have to spend a ton to build up my red tiers. The biggest problem is that even if I did dump several hundred chaos

It won't cost you hundreds of chaos.

You know you get map and currency drops while you map?

You really think I spent a thousand chaos during the first week to finish my atlas? Map were even more expensive then, and I had to gear my char out of nothing.

Sure 4 T16, all T15, all T14, all T13 costs maybe 500c.
Except when you run them you're gonna get probably 300c at least of maps and 150c of random currencies.

Sell your maps, sell your currencies. Don't tell us you cannot spend 50c to complete your atlas. I'm not even sure you'll be in deficit.

Then you'll have to chase elder many times to get the fragments. But at that point you'll have max bonus and you'll be running shaper or elder map chasing him. So you should be getting as much return as you're spending, at least.

Might take you a week or two, not sure how much you play. But there's still enough time this league to profit and then you can do it faster next one.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

As someone who's spent too much time in a casino as is, it doesn't seem wise to invest heavily into high risk when the "long term" returns have been so sparse as is.

As someone who should have spent more time in casinos... (cause you know I was making cash at poker tables but it got boring and variance was stressfull). I can tell you long term returns are there if you put enough effort into it. I mean it's litterally raining chaos, reminds me of my solo beachhead chain runs from harbi but maybe even better cause maps are 3 time pricier. I mean I sustain T16 with freaking white sextants and a monstrous treasure once in a while. Map sell like cupcakes, same with some high level drops (jewels, stygian, some specific elder/shaped bases).

So your choice:
1) keep complaining
2) finish the atlas and start profiting from all those people complaining and not wanting to go into higher tiers

And yes there is a threshold of profit for:
- chisels
- sextants
- prophecies (zana, monstrous treasure, might be others), I mean buying them, not just shuffling through random ones with navali
- atziri frags

Up to you to verify when it's profitable and when it's not.

Just saying that the mechanics to sustain are there. People just need to stop doing shaped T11 full sextant without elder and thinking it's gonna rain chaos like in 2.6.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

I'm not burning atziri frags on maps because I don't have a constant flow of them. Any time I get a set of four I tend to just do atziri because at least it feels like I'm being rewarded, even when she doesn't really drop anything of value.

Atziri frags are very easy to obtain. They are more then common in "silver chests" or as chest loot in final chamber of the eternal labyrinth. In abyss league, where I had dedicated "lab runner" I manage to complete more then 100 Atziri's sets just form lab loot. As a bonus you will have hundreds of Gamecutter's prisms. And if you hate lab, just obtain "queen's vaults" prophecy (usual price is 2-3 c), kill Atziri, grab "Vault's of Atziri" map, open "bonus" chest, it usually drops plenty of fragments, but rearly with "midnight" one, so rest of them you can easily "burn" on maps. Or you can buy this map for usual 5c price.

I thought end-game was just getting to level 90 and maybe if you really wanted, tightening up your build a bit.

"

Bone2flesh wrote:

Thank you very much for the screenshot. Especially coming from a SSF player it is undeniable proof that map sustain is only a l2play issue for most people.

The dude has more maps in his stash than i've run this league and I have 4 90+s and i'm done with the league, this isn't to dispute that map drops can be sustained i'm just pointing out that this guys sample size is vastly and i mean vastly above what most people will have completed when they are complaining about it.

The problem with all these threads is people don't understand how averages work, if alched maps drop 1.1 maps per map that doesn't mean that you run 100 and get 110 back, it means on average if you run 100 maps you will get 110 back.

The issue then becomes that some players simply can't put the numbers in to crunch through bad luck streaks, this is why we always recommend buy maps if your luck starts to suck ass.

tldr - you need a huge sample size to prove map drops are fine, which most will never get to.